Manipulative Albus redux WAS: Re: Snape / Albus section of Catlady's post

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 184338

Julie:
I agree. Carol felt betrayed by Dumbledore's lack of empathy
for Snape in the DH scene above, and Alla did not. Like Carol,
I did feel quite betrayed at first, and it was this scene,
where young Snape comes to Dumbledore intent on saving Lily,
that finally and irrevocably pried my fingers loose from
my desperate grip on the "Dumbledore as kind, compassionate
all-around epitome of goodness and best Wizard ever to
grace the WW" theory.

And it really has nothing to do with Snape or whether he
*deserves* empathy or sympathy or compassion. What one
deserves and what one gets is as much based on the person
doing the giving as the one receiving it.
<SNIP>

Alla:

Right, I definitely was not feeling betrayed by Dumbledore in that 
scene. Again, this not to be confused with me thinking that 
Dumbledore acted as compassionate person in that scene. I of course 
agree that he was not. I believed that Dumbledore was speaking an 
absolute honest to goodness truth when he told Snape off and 
manipulated him into submission, but LOL this is how he treats the 
man who looks suicidal even to Harry!

So, point one definitely was not betrayed while at the same time felt 
it was the truth and well deserved truth, while at the same time felt 
that those words were better not said if he had any compassion for 
Snape.

But the main reason why I was not betrayed by Dumbledore in that 
scene is because really, Dumbledore in that scene was no news or 
surprise for me.

Now before anybody produces my posts where I argued against 
Dumbledore as puppet master theory in the past, I am not denying it, 
of course I did. But I will also easily produce past posts of mine 
and those were a plenty, where I argued my absolute disgust of many 
Dumbledore's actions.

Dumbledore as epitome of goodness for me went out of the window, 
well, let's see, probably when he did not check on Harry during 
eleven years of him at Dursleys and did not make Dursleys to stop. Or 
maybe Dumbledore as epitome of goodness went flying for me when I 
learned that he made sure that  Harry was taken away from the 
guardian named by his parents and when I learned how Dumbledore did 
not move a finger to check on Sirius' story and maybe help him.

I mean, I was deluding myself too, that's for sure as to Dumbledore. 
But only in part, meaning that  I always argued that Dumbledore did 
not manipulate people as much as many people argued, I always argued 
that he either honestly screwed up, when he made choices that I found 
despicable, or that he just let people made his own choices. I argued 
that, I never argued that all Dumbledore's choices were choices I 
would respect, quite the contrary.

So, while I was definitely surprised by the extent of Dumbledore's 
manipulativeness or by his Grindelwald's past ( now that is something 
I could not think of in wildest dreams, bravo JKR), this scene did 
not show me any new Dumbledore.

After all, Dumbledore who tells Snape you disgust me, right after 
woman he loved is dead, is the same Dumbledore who is telling fifteen 
year old whose Godfather **just died** that his godfather did not 
treat freaking house elf well. Is it a truth? Oh of course it is. If 
I were Harry, I would want to tell Dumbledore to shut up and never 
speak with him about Sirius ever again. But I always maintained that 
Harry is much more compassionate person than me.

But the main point I am trying to make is that I saw no difference in 
Dumbledore in that scene. I saw for quite some time that he can 
behave that way.

JMO,

Alla