HBP post DH look Chapters 1-2.

[tommy_m_riddle]

No: HPFGUIDX 184373

> Carol:
> But thinking that Snape already knew the mission (minus the Vanishing
> Cabinet) and saw something else, for example, Draco's imagined death,
> in Narcissa's eyes, and softened his stance for that reason, would
> solve the problem, right? (BTW, before I read "The Unbreakable Vow," I
> thought the same thing you did, that Snape was bluffing in "Spinner's
> End." I just changed my view before DH.)

Sarah:
Yes, it should solve the problem.  But it isn't solved for me.  For
some reason, I tend toward technical explanations (at least for the
more complicated problems), and away from emotional ones.  For this
reason I have been wrong many times, such as claiming the entire
motivation for Snape is that he loved Lily would be a stupid
motivation for him.  Actually, I still think it is stupid, but it is
true and it is what it is.  I was horrified when I read that.  The
truth is that if Snape Legilimensed Narcissa and saw something that
motivated him emotionally, I a) have not really been shown by the
author what that was, still, and b) don't really care all that much
what it was at this point.  Prior to DH, I tried to figure it out with
logic, but that didn't work, so it's probably some implied emotional
thing.  Surely your suggestion is as good as any if we can't have a
logical answer.

> Carol:
> (for example, he wants both her and Narcissa to
> think that DD's "serious injury" is the result of slowed reflexes, not
> putting on a cursed ring, and he certainly conceals the fact that DD
> is dying).

Sarah:
Oh yeah, he's definitely not telling about any of that.  He just tells
about the injury, which is becoming obvious to everyone who meets
Dumbledore, and is soon to become obvious to the student body of
Hogwarts.  Everyone who sees him will take it in, but there's no need
to point out that it happened because he stupidly used a ring, or that
it is slowly killing him.  Either of those news items getting out
would basically be detrimental to each of Snape's causes.

> Carol:
> He says that only snape knows the answer, which is no help at all. 

Sarah:
I thought that Snape kind of understood what Dumbledore was saying. 
(Just my interpretation.)  And maybe agreed a little.  And I didn't
see any Snape body flopping around at Kings Cross, so I think maybe
they were right in their guess.  They could have been just guessing,
but I think they guessed right.

> Carol:
> Yes, it is. But your view that he's manipulating Dumbledore and not
> genuinely changing his mind about wanting to kill DD is not. (It's
> quite clear from the initial interview, the hand twitch, the
> hesitation on the tower, and Snape's facial expression, that he
> *doesn't want to kill DD. 

Sarah:
No, it's just my reading of it.  I don't think he *wants* to kill
Dumbledore.  I don't think he ever wanted to.  I don't think I said he
wanted to.  What I think is, he knows he has to.  I don't exactly want
to do all the stuff I have to do at work tomorrow, but I will anyway.
Or else I'll get fired, which would be better than getting killed,
which Snape probably would if he screwed up on any of his jobs.

I find a slight problem here:

Carol
> Before, it
> was kill DD if the circumstances required it--to save Draco's soul, to
> euthanize DD, and to stay in LV's good graces--with the possibility of
> "slithering out of action" if the circumstances allowed it. 

Sarah:
Where is the possibility to slither out of action?  What does Snape do
if he doesn't kill Dumbledore?  Even without the UV, what does Snape
do if he doesn't protect Draco?  What does Dumbledore do?  What does
Draco do?  What does Harry do?  How does the situation improve for
anyone besides Snape (who is sworn to Dumbledore anyhow) if Snape
doesn't take the UV?

[snipped a whole bunch of stuff that I agreed with so had no real
comment to]
  
> Carol:
> Oh, well. I see it as absolute revulsion at what DD wants him to do
> and hesitating long enough (though only a matter of seconds) for DD to
> become desperate: "Severus, please!" That plea indicates to me that he
> really feared that Snape was going to break both his promise and the
> UV and die there on the tower, along with DD and, most likely, Draco
> and Harry. 

Sarah:
You are going to hate this, but I always read Dumbledore saying
"Severus, please."  As in, "Severus, could you pass the salt, please."
 They had already discussed it in detail, so it wasn't a big deal at
the time, at least to Dumbledore.  He was just like now, that thing we
talked about, please thanks.  I already agreed that I don't think
Snape liked it too much, but it's his job.
 
> > > Carol earlier:
> > > Wouldn't he look like a hero if he protected Dumbledore from the
> other DEs and died fighting them, just as Sirius Black died protecting
> Harry? 
> > 
> > Sarah:
> > I guess, but fame isn't everything.  He would then be dead, soon
> > followed by Dumbledore, and Harry Potter would fail his mission and
> > Voldemort would win.   I'd rather him be successful than appear
> > successful to others, which is what he did. <snip>
> 
> Carol:
> I'm talking about
> what Snape, at that moment, would prefer--to die fighting heroically
> rather than killing his mentor before Harry's eyes, looking like a
> traitor and a murderer. 

Sarah:
Oh!  Well, he'd probably have preferred to die many times.  Or, use a
Time Turner.