Lily (was Complimenting a character WAS: Re: HBP CHAPTERS 7-9 POST DH LOOK

[potioncat]

No: HPFGUIDX 184430

 
> Montavilla47:
> <SNIP>
> I'm sure that's all just because JKR is trying to hide the secret from
> us, but it makes Lily look like a hypocrite and a terrible friend. 
> Imagine
> if it were Hermione and Harry, and Hermione pretended not to be
> friends with Harry and instead flirted with Malfoy while Harry was
> being hung upside-down and pantsed.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Well, I suggest we change your hypothetical just a little bit. How 
> about instead of Malfoy we put there any other Slytherin, but 
> somebody who does not call Muggleborns Mudbloods, if such Slytherins 
> exist of course. I believe the analogy will be more accurate then.

Potioncat:
I think you're both right. I have to say, I've never really thought 
about Lily's behavior in this light. She isn't acting like a friend. I 
can't imagine Hermione would smile at any aspect of the teasing if it 
had been Ron or Harry in the air. Even at the point she and Ron were 
most estranged--and she certainly wouldn't flirt with the tormenter.


On one level, I accept it as canon. Severus and Lily were friends until 
SWM brought issues to a head, and the friendship ended---to Snape's 
lasting regret.

On the other level---this friendship doesn't work--or the scenes don't. 
I don't get why JKR had Severus suddenly yell, "...a dirty Mudblood 
like her..." nor why JKR wrote Lily as if she didn't know Severus. I 
don't understand why Lily's close friends knew about the friendship, 
but no one else seems to.

For example, SWM might have made more sense if Lily had been in a group 
of Muggleborns who came to Severus's defense and he called them dirty 
mudbloods before he knew Lily was with them. Or if they came to back up 
Lily and Severus yelled at the group. (followed later by "But I didn't 
mean you, Lily.")

Just to be clear, I think the problems we all see in either Severus's 
behavior or Lily's is that JKR didn't fully develop the story. 

I'm looking at Severus and Lily as characters on a page, not as real 
life people. (Because sometimes we discuss the characters as if they 
were real.)
 
JKR created Snape as a very unpleasant fellow. At some point he does 
buy into the Slytherin Pureblood superiority ideas, although he may 
think "Lily isn't the same as the others." I believe a character could 
feel that way. I don't get his motivation for the sudden attack on 
Lily. 

I don't understand Lily's motivation for maintaining the friendship as 
long as she did, given what we see on the page. and I find it 
surprising that Lily might have developed a romantic interest in him if 
things had gone differently. I would like to have seen a few "happy" 
moments at Hogwarts to get that arc.

Don't get me wrong. I see the spark of good in Severus and I can 
understand how Lily could see the same virtues. A very credible 
friendship could be written. I just don't think the canon one is it.