HBP Chapters 27 - 30 post DH look LONG SORRY

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 184482

I just had to delete the previous post of mine which looked almost 
the same, but had the  messed up attribution. Sorry.


Potioncat:
<SNIP>
Here's my mulled thoughts.

After Lockhart nearly wiped Ron's memory, and intended to leave Ginny
to die---Molly is still using his book and making reference to it in
front of Ginny and Ron. She uses it to mix the doxiecide they used at
12 GP.

Alla:

Did she ever say that she hopes he will be back in school to teach
the kids? I am not being sarcastic here, I am asking honestly,
because if she did, yes, I would find it odd. If she did not, I well,
find it annoying, but not odd, it is not like she is ok with Lockhart
being near her kids.


Potioncat:
She also offered Ron a new pet rat for making prefect because he had
been so fond of Scabbers----surely she understands "who" Scabbers was
and how close he had been to her sons?

Alla:

If I can see the relative relevance of the first example, I really
fail to see how this one is relevant to the argument you seem to be
advancing. Surely she does not think that all the pet rats are
escaped animagi, who are Voldemort's servants and just wait to attack
her family?

What I am trying to say, and again, this was not sarcasm at all, is
that I would find it odd if Molly *would* think that another Scabbers
would ever to appear in her family, that usually pet rat is just that
a pet rat. IMO of course.

Potioncat:
I've always found both of these behaviors a bit odd. So, I'm not so
sure Molly or Arthur would blame DD for Ron's incident. IMO, they
would
think it was an unfortunate accident and that DD was doing the best he
could to protect the students while working against LV. <SNIP>

Alla:

Maybe, but I would like to believe the contrary.


Sherry now:
<SNIP>
The oh so
touching scene in the King's cross chapter of DH did nothing to
repair DD's
image for me. <SNIP>

Alla:

I agree with you on all other parts of your post pretty much, but I
do wonder. I remember well that Kings Cross on the first read and
even on the second made me forgive Dumbledore. Oh, I still hated what
he did, but at least he seemed to be genuinely sorry. But now when I
am thinking about it, I do wonder if I will still have same reaction
upon reread.

 
Pippin:
It's not a question of caring about the Dursleys, it's a question of
whether bullying is an effective way to deal with people. It doesn't
work for Severus or James or Vernon or Dudley, it robs Sirius of his
life and Voldemort of his soul, so why should it work for Dumbledore?
And why should Petunia put up with it? Out of her so great love for
Harry that she cannot even bring herself to wish him luck? <SNIP>

Alla:
I dare to speculate that if Dumbledore the greatest wizard of all
times would have wanted to design the way to make sure Dursleys
obeyed them, he could have done so, much better than any of the
people you listed. After all Dumbledore seems to always find a way
to make sure people do what he wants them to do ( the ones whom he
commands, before you say that, not Voldemort and DE), IMO.

No, I do not believe Petunia would have wanted to put up with it, of
course not. But do I have any doubt that Dumbledore could have forced
her to put up with it? No, I do not.

You think that threat of being turned into mushrooms as it was
suggested in the past or being turned into anything period would not
have made them act differently?

I think it definitely would have and if threat would not have helped,
I think Dumbledore should have appeared again and again and actually
show them that he means business, scare them into doing what he
needed to be done.


Now, do not get me wrong, hate Dursleys as I am, I totally understand
that what I am suggesting is bullying. But that's what tough choice
means to me. I think that in situation like this **somebody** is
bound to get screwed – Dursleys or Harry. Nobody made Dumbledore to
drop Harry on Dursleys, but now as far as I am concerned I do not
believe he can say – oh well, now please, you can make your own
choices. Please treat this child as you wish, I needed him to be with
you, but I am so cool, I will never force you to do anything.

He **already** did. And now I think he had to get over his desire to
be distant and yes, tell Petunia, care for a boy or be a mushroom. I
think that baby is the one who has no choice in the matter
whatsoever, therefore yes I think Dumbledore should make sure he is
okay first and foremost.

If he wanted to be nice to Dursleys, you know what I think he should
have done. If he chose to help Harry, as far as I am concerned he was
obligated to go all the way.

It is like that interview, where JKR asked why Dumbledore did not go
to Hagrid and she answered something along the lines that he wanted
to let Hagrid make his own choice.

I do not believe that Dumbledore has this luxury here, he cannot IMO
allow Dursleys to make their own choices, because if he wanted to do
so, he should have never given Harry to him.

Pippin:
Dumbledore never ordered Snape to kill him. "I ask this one great
favor of you." I don't see any bullying happening -- Snape is not
threatened, only asked to consider whether it would harm his soul to
spare an old man pain and humiliation. They both take some time to
think about it and Snape doesn't answer immediately. He could have
said no. It's not like he always does everything that Dumbledore asks
of him.

Alla:

LOL. Do you seriously believe that Snape could have said NO there? I
do not buy it.
And what do you give me Severus? Anything. I bet Snape remembered
that conversation really well, in fact I think both of them did.
And Snape tried to get out in the forest, I believe, I do not think
that he was saying it for dramatics, or anything like that. IMO of
course.

I think Dumbledore knows that Snape would never refuse him anything.
Oh yeah, he stopped Occlumency lessons, but I now wonder if this was
not with Dumbledore's express approval only.

Snape is even slavishly follows the orders of the portrait, portrait
whose owner is already in the better place. I do wonder how he
managed to save Lupin instead of acting as DE, per portrait's
suggestion. But that to me does not count as Snape not following
orders, because Dumbledore himself is dead, maybe Snape realized that
nothing is going to happen to him if he will act how he wants instead
of what portrait demands of him.



JMO.
Alla