Deathly Hallows reread CH 1 -3

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 186231

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "sartoris22" <sartoris22 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Zara" <zgirnius@> wrote:
> >
> 
> > Alla:
> > And here is our big point of disagreement. I know that you are right and that somewhere in HBP we may find Albus offering some sort of advice to Ministry. 
> 
Sartoris22 responded:
> 
> In OOTP, during the scene in Sirius's kitchen when Harry is getting an update from the Order, Luipn says this to Harry: ",,,during the  early days of his Ministry he [Fudge] was forever asking Dumbledore for help and advice. But it seems he's become fond of power now , and much more confident" (94).
> 
> The quotation goes on to say that Fudge now believes he's smarter than Dumbledore and thinks Dumbledore is just trying to make trouble in his warnings about Voldemort. Apparently, Dumbledore did give Fudge advice but Fudge stopped asking for it.
>
Carol adds:
We also have two specific instances of DD offering advice to Fudge and of Fudge rejecting it. The first is near the end of GoF when DD advises Fudge to "remove Azkaban from the control of the dementors" and "send envoys to the giants" (Am. ed. 707, 708). The second occurs during Harry's hearing in OoP, when DD says things like, "We must ask ourselves why somebody within the Ministry ordered a pair of dementors into that alleyway on the second of August" and "undoubtedly the Ministry will be making an inquiry into why two dememtors were so very far from Azkaban" (Am. ed. 146, 147), essentially reiterating his point that the dementors can't be trusted and likely to form an alliance with Voldemort if they haven't already, along with the (new) implication that someone at the Ministry also can't be trusted. In addition, he reminds Fudge that the Decree for the Reasonable Restriction of Underage Sorcery allows an underage Wizard to defend himself and that the Ministry doesn't have the power to punish Hogwarts students for their behavior at school (148, 149). About the only effect of his advice (other than Harry's acquittal, which is not Fudge's doing) is the later change in the law that allows Dolores Umbridge to infiltrate the school first as spy and then as High Inquisitor. He certainly doesn't believe that Voldemort is back or that the dementors are dangerous and untrustworthy.

But judging from these examples, we can see that Dumbledore did try to influence and advise Fudge. And I think we see in "the Other Minister" in HBP that Fudge belatedly realizes that Dumbledore was right about both Voldemort and the Dementors (and possibly the giants as well--though I think that Fudge did send an ambassador to the giants, the MoM employee Macnair, who was really serving another master).

With regard to Scrimgeour, Dumbledore may have thought that he was too interested in Harry (as mascot) and that it was important to the secrecy of the Horcrux hunt that Harry not become allied with him. Harry, of course, had other reasons (Umbridge and Stan Shunpike), but, IMO, Scrimgeour had no way of knowing about Umbridge's activities as High Inquisitor, especially her quill, so when Harry raised his fist to show that "I will not tell lies" was still burned into his skin, it would simply have looked to Scrimgeour like a raised fist with scars that looked like words. (He didn't say: "See this? Umbridge did this to me because I said that Voldemort was back, and yet you've still got her on the Ministry payroll!") Scrimgeour isn't a mind reader, and he isn't evil. It's clear that Dumbledore hasn't communicated all the facts about Umbridge to him (if he knows them himself). He probably feels that Scrimgeour won't be as tractable as Fudge once was and that he'll think that any information Dumbledore has about Voldemort is Ministry business. Since DD works on a need-to-know basis and since he has no personal relationship with Scrimgeour based on mutual trust, not to mention that he knows from Snape that the Ministry will eventually be infiltrated (if it isn't already, via Umbridge) he probably thinks it's best to keep the MoM and the Horcrux hunt completely separate. (As for DD's earlier advice to Fudge, Scrimgeour is already aware that Voldemort is back and has learned to his cost not to trust the Dementors. All Scrimgeour can do now is to fight Voldemort in his own way while DD fights him in his.) 

Carol, who rather likes Scrimgeour and wishes he had a larger role