Ron WAS: Re: DH reread CH 4-5

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 186322


> 
> Pippin: 
> > Harry's crucio and many of his other actions are condemned by the excuses he made for them. He doesn't make excuses when he's done something to be proud of.
> 
> Magpie:
> Harry doesn't make excuses for the Crucio that I remember--quite the opposite--and his author defends it as not that problematic--and that is a situation I would say works much better as right vs. easy. 

Pippin:
"Potter, that was foolish!"
"He spat at you," said Harry. -- DH ch 30 

Sounds like an excuse to me.

To interpret an action which the author says shows that Harry is not a saint -- in other words, not an example of holiness -- as if JKR thinks too much holiness is a bad thing is still beyond my comprehension.  Where in the books is real goodness disparaged?

JKR doesn't want Harry as a character to be too perfect -- but that's to make him believable, IMO, not because too much goodness in a real person is some sort of fault. Good grief, even Bella doesn't wish her friends were more cruel!


Magpie:
Harry's choice of easy and wrong was just fine, with no bad consequences for him on any level in canon.

Pippin:

As Dumbledore says, we can't always judge an action by its consequences. That  offenses are forgiven does not mean that they weren't wrong. 

 Harry can certainly see that those who get the habit of crucio-ing people whenever they feel like it face bad consequences eventually. I understand why you think the reader might assume that Harry is different. But why should Harry think so?

We don't see Harry's remorse. But we do see a Harry who doesn't trust himself with the WW's most absolute power, and tries to show respect for the rights of others, including Muggles.

Remorse, canon says, is feeling the pain that you caused. It does not say that you have to feel  that you are  an unforgivable, miserable worthless wretch who doesn't deserve to live. That's not feeling the pain that you caused at all, IMO, because that doesn't have anything to do with realizing  what another person suffered -- it's just about you.


Magpie: 
> Ron certainly faces a challenge with the Horcrux, and many other characters also face hard challenges, especially Harry, but I just still think Dumbledore's line is one that sounds nice in the moment and looks great on a movie poster but isn't something we see played out in the story.

Pippin:

Ron tried to bear the horcrux equally with his friends although he soon realized that he was more susceptible to it than they were. (Making once more the point from the second task that a morally right choice is not necessarily the most sensible option.) When Ron returned, he begged Harry not to ask him to face the thing again, but finally agreed. Those were cases of choosing right over easy, IMO. 

I think we see this played out everywhere, but most obviously in  Draco, who doesn't have the reserves of courage and trust that Ron and Harry have. 

It's Draco who repeats, over and over again on the Tower, that he has no choice, while Dumbledore explains that Draco does have  a choice, but a difficult one. What we see in DH is how Draco learns to recognize a choice when he does not have Dumbledore there to show him options.

By absolute standards, what resistance Draco shows in DH  is not heroic. But I see him as  drawing on all the courage and trust that he has, in  hesitating to identify the Trio and in trying to save Goyle, though he's too terrified to come up with anything clever.  It would have been easier  just to give up and get it over with, as he came close to doing on the Tower.

Pippin