Prophecy (was Re: What would Snape have done if Lily had lived? (Was: Mothers)

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 187567

>
> Potioncat wrote:
> > 
> > I don't see that we are told that any of the prophecies
> > did not come true. 
>   <snip>


> Carol responds:
> I agree ... but I'm not sure that the lit orbs are necessarily
> "in play." Quite possibly, no one acted on them (other than to
> speak them and hear them) and so they were never fulfilled.
>  <snip>

Mike pipes in:

I don't have the books to hand, but in HBP doesn't Dumbledore during the discussion of Horcruxes mention prophecies and say something along the lines of, 'you don't think all the prophecies in the Hall of Prophecies have been fulfilled?' I figured that Dumbledore thought there were true prophecies, some bogus prophecies, and some that fell in the middle somewhere. Prophecies that *could* come true if the proper circumstances arose - like in this case, with all of the inputs by all of the actors - but that would most likely not come true without a lot of help.

I guess I'm thinking like you are, Carol, that those prophecies that speak of some action require that action to activate them. I'd imagine that some of those dark orbs are prophecies that weren't acted upon and were time limited. When the required action didn't take place in time, the prophecy died. For instance, let's say that Lily is killed in action before giving birth to Harry, the prophecy goes on hiatus at least. Then Dumbledore figures out the Horcrux thingee and eliminates them and Voldemort before a new chosen one is born. That prophecy dies unfulfilled.


> <BIG SNIP>
> 
> > Potioncat 
> > On the other hand, (imho) if LV had waited a little, he would
> have dismissed Neville as ever being the one with the power and
> would still have chosen Harry. I guess that brings us right back
> to the issue of whether the prophecy could have played out
> differently or been completely neutralized. <snip>
> 
> Carol responds:
> But what would have protected Harry in that case? He wouldn't have
> been a baby whose mother could step in front of him and plead with
> LV to "kill [her] instead,  <snip>
> So Harry not only would not have acquired the powers that enabled
> him to defeat LV  <snip>

Mike:
IMHO, if the prophecy does not play out as it was intended/foretold, then the prophecy dies. IOW, we needed all of the actors here, we needed Snape asking LV to spare Lily, we needed Lily unwilling to step aside, we even needed Dumbledore allowing Snape to go to LV with the partial prophecy. Without everything coming together as it was, then, like you said Carol, Harry doesn't get the "power the dark lord knows not" and that's it for the prophecy. It's as null and void as a box of poorly wrapped china in the hands of the post office.



> Carol responds:
> 
> Of course, the second part of the Prophecy ("either must die at
> the hand of the other, for neither can live while the other
> survives") could still have worked out the other way. <snip>


Mike:
Well, I'm not sure which of the first part of the prophecy you are saying didn't happen in your above conditional clause. For my part, I'd say that if Harry never acquires "the power" then the prophecy at the very least no longer applies to him. That's if it's not completely dead, as I believe Harry would've been if he had *not* acquired the power.



> > Potioncat, wondering why if Lily narrowly escaped LV three
> > times, it's LV's 4th attempt that causes Snape to ask DD to
> > save her.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Carol, guessing that young Snape never thought about Lily as
> being in danger until LV specifically targeted the Potters

Mike:
Now I'm wondering if some of those narrow escapes happened before James and Lily tied the knot? Also wondering how bad Snape wanted Lily before she was married off. Forbidden fruit, you know. 

Maybe young Snape still thought it possible that Miss Evans would join him, all evidence to the contrary, as much as young Sev thought Lily could be in Slytherin, all evidence to the contrary.

Mike, thinking prophecies are like chicken eggs:
Easily broken - nothing happens
Many ungerminated - bogus, never will happen
Requiring all the right conditions to turn them into Basilisks