Prophecy (was Re: What would Snape have done if Lily had lived? (Was: Mothers)

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 187568

Mike wrote:
<snip>
> I guess I'm thinking like you are, Carol, that those prophecies that speak of some action require that action to activate them. I'd imagine that some of those dark orbs are prophecies that weren't acted upon and were time limited. When the required action didn't take place in time, the prophecy died. For instance, let's say that Lily is killed in action before giving birth to Harry, the prophecy goes on hiatus at least. Then Dumbledore figures out the Horcrux thingee and eliminates them and Voldemort before a new chosen one is born. That prophecy dies unfulfilled.

> Mike:
> IMHO, if the prophecy does not play out as it was intended/foretold, then the prophecy dies. IOW, we needed all of the actors here, we needed Snape asking LV to spare Lily, we needed Lily unwilling to step aside, we even needed Dumbledore allowing Snape to go to LV with the partial prophecy. Without everything coming together as it was, then, like you said Carol, Harry doesn't get the "power the dark lord knows not" and that's it for the prophecy. It's as null and void as a box of poorly wrapped china in the hands of the post office.

Carol responds:

Well, I was thinking that the dark ones had been fulfilled, but your idea that some die unfulfilled is plausible, too. Either way, though, the ones that are still active or still have a chance to be activated are the ones that are glowing--quite a large number, apparently, and I would guess that some have been around for centuries. At any rate, the Harry/Voldie prophecy is still in the active phase, partially but not completely fulfilled.

Carol earlier: 
> > Of course, the second part of the Prophecy ("either must die at the hand of the other, for neither can live while the other survives") could still have worked out the other way. <snip>
> 
> Mike:
> Well, I'm not sure which of the first part of the prophecy you are saying didn't happen in your above conditional clause. For my part, I'd say that if Harry never acquires "the power" then the prophecy at the very least no longer applies to him. That's if it's not completely dead, as I believe Harry would've been if he had *not* acquired the power.

Carol responds:

Sorry to be unclear. What I meant is that, as Dumbledore says in OoP, the Prophecy clearly does refer to Harry. While the part about the boy born at the end of July to parents who have thrice defied the Dark Lord could also have applied to Neville (and theoretically to some other person born in some other July), the part about being "marked as his equal" clearly indicates Harry, marked with the lightning scar that gives him some of Voldemort's own powers, Parseltongue and a link to Voldemort's mind, which I suppose could be considered a very specialized and powerful form of Legilimency. Certainly, it enables him to understand Voldemort as almost no one except Dumbledore can. And Lily's self-sacrifice has given Harry "the power that the Dark Lord knows not," or at least the example of how that power is acquired, which he applies when he chooses to sacrifice himself, not knowing that, unlike his mother, he'll survive.

So, as I interpret it, the only part of the Prophecy left unfulfilled is the part I quoted earlier, "Either must die at the hand of the other, for neither can live while the other survives. At the time that Harry hears the Prophecy, just after the orb is smashed, we know who the two participants are, "either" of whom could die at the hand of the "other." We just don't know which will die or how it will happen until that final confrontation in DH. Of course, it's possible that the Prophecy could have remained unfulfilled even though parts of it had already come true, notably Harry being "marked" by Voldemort, if, for example, Harry hadn't had that shared drop of blood and had been killed by Nagini.

So the fulfillment of the Prophecy wasn't inevitable, but it was in the active phase and on its way to being fulfilled, barring literally unforeseen circumstances (such as Harry's death or someone else finding and destroying the Horcruxes). Once Harry and Voldemort met for the last time, one of them was going to die. There could be no other outcome (unless they both died), "for neither can live while the other survives." IOW, it was a real prophecy. The only question, once it was put into play and the Chosen One "marked," was not whether but when and how it would be fulfilled.

Carol, who needs to go watch "Monk" now and is signing off :-)