Choices/Snape as abuser, SKIP if not interested WAS :Re: CHAPTER

[nikkalmati]

No: HPFGUIDX 188568





--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" <dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
> 
>> 
> Alla:
> 
> Well, no, not just after Harry does something extraordinary rude. Harry did not do anything extraordinary rude on the first lesson. Harry did not do anything extraordinary rude on so many other instances and Snape still abused him verbally as far as I am concerned. Harry did not do anything extraordinary rude when Snape took the book he was reading away from him. Harry did not do anything rude whatsoever when Snape destroyed his potion.
> 
> Sure, Snape usually yells, he is not a physical but verbal abuser as far as I am concerned
> 

Nikkalmati

I believe there probably is a rule against taking library books out of doors (although didn't SS take the book from HG?) We have no evidence SS destroyed the potion - he merely sneered at Harry for being such a klutz.  You are not free to make things up.  

Nikkalmati
 
> Alla:
> 
> I completely disagree that it is a valid expectation that little boy who just arrives in the world unknown to him will use a rude nickname used by his father he never knew in part thanks to Snape dear.  He is a boy for crying out loud, an orphaned boy in part thanks to Snape. See, I do not like the way Dumbledore manipulated him into protecting Harry, not at all. If I look at the characters from within the story I wish he would have found another protector, trust me. I mean, I am not complaining because otherwise this story would have been so different of course. However, I think Snape owed Harry so so much that this is a debt he should have been paying, I just think he should have been decent enough to treat the boy he helped rob of childhood better. I do not think protecting his life gave him any right to verbal abuse.
> 
> 
> DISCLAIMER since I know how hot the topic of Snape as abuser always was and is. It is my opinion, just my opinion ONLY my opinion. But it is not an opinion that is ever going to change.
> 
> JMO,
> 
> Alla
>
Nikkalmati

I have to take the bait here and "defend" one of my favorite characters.  Well, not defend exactly, because we all agree Snape was nasty to Harry - and Hermione - and Neville - and Ron etc.  The problem may lie with the word "abuse" which has so many strong negative meanings.  

I think we see abuse in the HP books embodied in Petunia Dursley, who engaged in verbal, psychological and physical abuse of a small child at the time he was most vulnerable until he left her care.  She humiliated him, made it impossible for him to have friends, made him work like a servant, and, as his caregiver, withheld any love or appreciation.  Whatever Snape does pales in comparison.  In addition, he was a close relative and she had taken him in with a promise to care for him.  She cetrtainly violated her obligations to him. We see that even at the end she has no kind word or regrets.  I used to think she was afraid of magic, but after DH I can only see jealousy of her sister (who was always kind to her) as her sole motive for mistreating Harry.

In comparison, what Snape does to Harry is pretty minor.  He is not his HOH, and sees Harry at most a few hours a week.  Harry has built up a strong shield against any negative comments because of his experience at the Dursleys and we never see any harm come to Harry as the result of Snape's nastiness.  In fact, the only persons who suffer from Snape's comments are Hermione and Neville.  

I don't see Snape as taking revenge on Harry because of James (as Petunia takes revenge on Harry because of Petunia), but I do see him as testing and misjudging Harry.  I don't agree, Steve, that Harry was not cheeky in the first lesson.  I recall being a bit taken aback (and very much amused) and hoping nothing bad would happen to Harry because of his comments.  In my school talking back to a teacher like that would have merited an immediate trip to the principal's office. I guess no one sent students to see DD. He would only offer them a lemon sherbert.  :)  I think the scene in DH where SS tells DD Harry is "mediocre, arrogant as his father, a determined rule-breaker, delighted to find himself famous, attention-seeking and impertinent" (The Prince's Tale) occurrs after this first lesson, and is the product of Harry's own behavior.  We know, of course, SS is wrong, but from SS's limited point of view and lack of opportunity to correct this opinion Harry is not deserving of better treatent.  If Harry had been like Hermione or Neville, for example, SS would not have been so hostile, even if they had been James' children. He does take his obligation to Harry seriously even though his part in his parents deaths was two or three steps removed and unforseen at the time. 

I can't even tell you how shocked and disillusioned I was after the Pensieve scene.  It was the same to me as if a teacher had left a student in his office and come back to find the student going through his desk reading his mail! 

In any case, I think "abuse" is too strong a word and should be reserved for cases of real harm.

Nikkalmati