Lily WAS: First lesson

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 185704

> Montavilla47:
> > I'm talking about the memory where Lily scolds Snape for being
> > friends with people who did... something unspecified to her 
> > friend Mary.
> > 
> > I think you're right that she's concerned about her friend--but I 
> > think that she's also concerned that Snape's association with 
> > Slytherin bad boys is costing her points with her friends.  The reason
> > I think this is because she says that she's been making excuses to
> > those friends for him for years.  She sounds fed up about that.
> <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Ah, I see where we differ and yes, we are talking about the same 
> situation. I do not associate friends warning you about the guy 
> necessarily with them saying that if you do not stop associating with 
> him, you will not be our friend anymore, or less cool friend or 
> something.

Montavilla47:
Darn you, Alla.  You made me go back and reread that chapter!

And I found out that I was misremembering.  It's later--when
Snape is trying to apologize to Lily that she complains about 
having to make excuses.  So, let me apologize for getting that
wrong.

They are outside the Griffyindor dorms.  This is what Lily says
(p. 675-676, DH, AM. Ed.):  

"I only came out because Mary told me you were threatening to 
sleep here."

(Snape:) "I was.  I would have done.  I never meant to call you 
Mudblood, it just--"

"Slipped out?" There was no pity in Lily's voice.  "It's too late.
I've made excuses for you for years.  None of my friends can
understand why I even talk to you."

Interrupting here.  She doesn't say that they've been warning
her.  She says that she's made excuses.  While one can make
excuses for someone who is bad for you (for example, abused
people might make excuses for their abusive spouses), it's more
likely that one would "make excuses" for someone who is 
socially inappropriate.  Especially since we see that Lily feels
not at all threatened by Snape as a person.  

Also, "None of my friends can understand why I even talk to
you." 

That's a sentiment that only applies when talking about social
status.  People who your friends shouldn't talk to are obviously
socially beneath them.  If Snape's friends were socially superior
(or "cool"), then Lily's friends wouldn't be wondering why she
would talk to him.  They might not like him.  They might despise
him.  But they wouldn't need to ask why she's talking to him.

Lily continues:  "You and your precious little Death Eater friends
--you see, you don't even deny it!  You don't even deny that's 
what you're all aiming to be!  You can't wait to join You-Know-
Who, can you?"

Reading this again, I'm struck by how contemptuously Lily
speaks about the Death Eaters here.  "Precious little
Death Eaters" isn't something I'd expect someone to say
about a terrorist group.  (I'm trying to imagine a context
in which a girl might tell her friend, "You and your precious
Al-Quaida!"  Or "You and your precious Hitler youth!") 

Maybe I'm looking at this through too strict an American
lens?  Because the way I read her tone here, the "precious
Death Eaters" sound like a joke at the school.  A group that's
a joke?  That's an unpopular group.


Alla:
> Like with Ginny, we also see that she is popular, but do we see that 
> she cares about popularity per se?

Montavilla47:
Well, in GoF, she cares enough to attend the Yule Ball that she agrees
to go with Neville and then gets upset when Ron laughs.  So, she 
obviously cares that Neville is seen as socially undesirable.  And she
defends herself by pointing out that she wouldn't be able to attend
the dance otherwise (making it clear that she's not "interested" in 
socially awkward Neville).

And she dates two other boys without seeming to be that interested
in them (given that she breaks up with them for minor faults).   One 
reason to date is to increase your social status.  

So, I wouldn't say there's *no* indication that Ginny cares about 
her popularity.