Lily WAS: First lesson

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 185705

> Montavilla47:
<SNIP>
 If Snape's friends were socially superior
> (or "cool"), then Lily's friends wouldn't be wondering why she
> would talk to him.  They might not like him.  They might despise
> him.  But they wouldn't need to ask why she's talking to him.

Alla:

I just sent you a reply offlist, since I wanted to make personal 
analogy, but wanted to make a different point here.

Say you are right, I mean I disagree, but for the sake of the 
argument say you are right and Lily is concerned about her coolness 
with the friends and how her friendship with Snape will affect her 
coolness.

To me, if it is true (and please, please let me stress I am not 
**conceeding** that it is), the fact that Lily maintained said 
friendship despite her wanting to be friends with her other friends 
for years, speaks tons in Lily's favour. That she stood up to peer 
pressure, etc.




Montavilla47: 
> Lily continues:  "You and your precious little Death Eater friends
> --you see, you don't even deny it!  You don't even deny that's 
> what you're all aiming to be!  You can't wait to join You-Know-
> Who, can you?"
> 
> Reading this again, I'm struck by how contemptuously Lily
> speaks about the Death Eaters here.  "Precious little
> Death Eaters" isn't something I'd expect someone to say
> about a terrorist group.  (I'm trying to imagine a context
> in which a girl might tell her friend, "You and your precious
> Al-Quaida!"  Or "You and your precious Hitler youth!") 
> 
> Maybe I'm looking at this through too strict an American
> lens?  Because the way I read her tone here, the "precious
> Death Eaters" sound like a joke at the school.  A group that's
> a joke?  That's an unpopular group.

Alla:

Huh? You would prefer her to talk about Death Eaters as popular 
group? Seriously I do not understand your point. Actually I found her 
tone to be very appropriate here. Sort of the same thing as fear of 
the name increases fear of the person, if that makes sense?

She does speak with contempt, but to me it feels that it should be 
addressed with contempt and maybe people will not be as scared to 
fight them. IMO of course.
 
> 
> Alla:
> > Like with Ginny, we also see that she is popular, but do we see 
that 
> > she cares about popularity per se?
> 
> Montavilla47:
> Well, in GoF, she cares enough to attend the Yule Ball that she 
agrees
> to go with Neville and then gets upset when Ron laughs.  So, she 
> obviously cares that Neville is seen as socially undesirable.  And 
she
> defends herself by pointing out that she wouldn't be able to attend
> the dance otherwise (making it clear that she's not "interested" in 
> socially awkward Neville).

Alla:

I have to reread the moment when she defends herself, but I mean, she 
**went** with socially undesirable Neville, doesn't it mean that she 
could assume that she could be ridiculed and still went?

Montavilla47:
> And she dates two other boys without seeming to be that interested
> in them (given that she breaks up with them for minor faults).   
One 
> reason to date is to increase your social status.  

Alla:

Or just to have fun without any thought about status?

Montavilla47:
> So, I wouldn't say there's *no* indication that Ginny cares about 
> her popularity.

Alla:

Again, I disagree, but I understand what you are saying.

JMO,

Alla