Snape killing flies WAS: Re: Lily WAS: First lesson

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 185724

> Montavilla47:
> I agree that we can and should draw insight into Snape's character
> from those memories.  My impression of the third memory (with
> the flies) was not that Snape was so horribly sadistic, but rather
> that he was horribly bored and lonely as a teenager.

Alla:

That's a good point, but again why pick killing flies to show that he 
is bored?

Montavilla47: 
> She could have shown him reading or making potions--but
> those would not have conveyed either boredom or loneliness
> to me.  Reading is a pleasureable experience.  I don't do it 
> because I'm bored or lonely.  I do it because I enjoy reading--
> often to the exclusion of other people.

Alla:

I enjoy reading certainly, but I mean, isn't it not mutually 
exclusive - do something because you enjoy it and do it because you 
are bored and have nothing to do?

But I take your point.

Montavilla47:
<SNIP>
> I'll agree that there's an edge of darkness in that he's killing
> living creatures.  But, if you want to convey the sort of ickiness
> that we associate with dangerously violent people, flies aren't
> the best choice.

Alla:

Ah, but I thought that was done deliberately ambigiuously. I mean, if 
she would have shown Snape killing dogs, cats, not even talking about 
people, we would have agreed that it is not good, right?

With flies, well could be nothing, could be he was just bored, 
absolutely, or it could be that the emphasis is on *killing*, not on 
who is being killed.

Heck, for the longest time I was not sure that it **was** Snape.

Montavilla47:
> But, it's a good image, isn't it?  He's bored, lonely, and maybe 
> --just maybe--he's sick and violent, too. 

Alla:

Yes :-)
 
Montavilla47: 
> I like the first image, too, when he's crying in the corner.  That 
> one isn't so ambiguous.  It's hard to look at a crying child and 
> have anything but sympathy for him.  The most ambiguous 
> responses I've heard from people to that one are 1) that is 
> isn't Snape's parents, but perhaps his mother and grandfather,
> and 2) that the woman isn't afraid, but that they are simply
> fighting on an equal level.

Alla:

Right, was not sure that it was Snape myself, but you are definitely 
right and heck, if Snape's story would have been told in a different 
chronological order I may have continued to retain more sympathy for 
him, you know, or I could have hated him even more, heh.

Montavilla47: 
> But what are we to make of that second memory?  It is just
> to show us that Snape was horrible at riding brooms?  Is that
> Lily laughing at him?  Or a random girl?  I find that people
> tend to focus on either the first or the third memory and
> gloss over that second one.

Alla:

Honestly, no idea. I suppose it was Lily just because again it will 
be a waste of words otherwise, why show random girl unnecessary for 
the story.