Snape killing flies WAS: Re: Lily WAS: First lesson

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 185732

Montavilla47 wrote:
> I agree that we can and should draw insight into Snape's character
from those memories.  My impression of the third memory (with the
flies) was not that Snape was so horribly sadistic, but rather that he
was horribly bored and lonely as a teenager.
> 
> She could have shown him reading or making potions--but those would
not have conveyed either boredom or loneliness to me.  Reading is a
pleasureable experience.  I don't do it because I'm bored or lonely. 
I do it because I enjoy reading--often to the exclusion of other people.
> 
> Likewise, potion-making would have given me the impression that
teen-Snape was dedicated, maybe obsessive about magic. Again, not
bored or lonely.  
> 
> I'll agree that there's an edge of darkness in that he's killing
living creatures.  But, if you want to convey the sort of ickiness
that we associate with dangerously violent people, flies aren't the
best choice. <snip>
> 
Carol:
I'm not snipping anything here because I agree completely. Now if we'd
seen him torturing a spider and taking pleasure from it like
Crouch!Moody, I'd agree with Alla that we were looking at a sick and
violent teenager. Or if he were randomly killing cats and dogs. But
who doesn't kill flies? They're nasty and annoying, and the buzz of
just one fly can drive you crazy till you've killed the thing.

Like you, I read the scene as indicating that Teen!Snape is bored,
lonely, and depressed--too depressed to invent spells or read or
experiment with potions or even Apparate over to Mulciber's house and
see what he's up to. It's a sad scene, actually, and I think Harry
viewed it that way. He certainly didn't draw any conclusions like,
"Oh, look! I can see that he's a future Death Eater!" from it. And if
he were a real Death Eater, he'd be out there with the others
torturing Muggles or performing some duty for Voldemort, whether it's
spying or making poisons. And as I said before, *Harry* also practiced
spells on insects, so that in itself is no indication that he's up to
no good.

Montavilla47:
> I like the first image, too, when he's crying in the corner.  That
one isn't so ambiguous.  It's hard to look at a crying child and have
anything but sympathy for him. <snip>

Carol responds:
Exactly. And I think that's Harry's response, too. He understands for
the first time ever that Snape had a hard childhood. The sympathy
doesn't last because Snape is concentrating on the lesson, controlling
his anger and actually praising Harry for the Protego and the memory
of the MoM corridor takes precedence in both Harry's and Snape's
minds, but that teeny glimpse has paved the way for the sympathy, even
empathy, that Harry will again feel when he sees his father and Sirius
attacking "Snape" two on one and publicly humiliating him.

Montavilla 47: 
> But what are we to make of that second memory?  It is just to show
us that Snape was horrible at riding brooms?  Is that Lily laughing at
him?  Or a random girl?  I find that people tend to focus on either
the first or the third memory and gloss over that second one.

Carol responds:
I agree that the memory is ambiguous, especially the behavior of the
girl. Is she laughing at him in the sense of making fun of him? That
doesn't say much for Lily, if it's her, and I think it is. She's his
only friend, at least when he's quite young (pre-Hogwarts) and the
only one he's likely to be with.

Clearly, it's not the flying lesson at school, or they wouldn't be
alone and she would also be struggling to learn to fly (no enchanted
brooms at her house to practice on and we see no indication that she's
a gifted flyer like James and Harry). At a guess, they're at Severus's
house when his parents aren't home and he's having a go on his
mother's broom without ever having been taught how to use it. Since
the broom is trying to buck him off, the point can't be that he's a
bad flyer. The broom either senses his inexperience and, unlike
Neville, he holds on for dear life, or it's been hexed, probably by
his mother, to keep him from flying on it. We don't see him falling
off, which would indicate that he's a bad flyer, and if he were in any
real danger, his dear friend Lily wouldn't be laughing. At any rate,
the adult Snape has no trouble flying either as a referee in CoS or in
the chase scene in DH. (How and why he learned to fly without a broom,
we don't know, but he certainly was afraid of flying.)

I don't know what to make of the broom memory, either, but I think it
shows a young Severus eager to learn skills he's not quite ready for
(in contrast to Lily, who's quite happy to watch him and laugh rather
than take her turn--maybe the laughter indicates excitement and
happiness rather than ridicule?) or the broom is hexed, which I think
is likely from its behavior. One thing's for sure, it's not a fine
racing broom like the not-yet invented Nimbus 2000 or Firebolt.
Severus's mother wouldn't be able to afford one. I suspect it's the
broom she uses to clean her house (and, occasionally, for
transportation), which she doesn't want her nine- or ten-year-old son
to attempt to ride.

Carol, who thinks that the memory shows Severus's fearlessness and
spirit of adventure but is not sure what to make of Lily's behavior