First lesson WAS: Re: Marietta, was Slytherin's Reputation LONG

[julie]

No: HPFGUIDX 185796


> Montavilla47:
> <SNIP
> I'm trying to think about another subject that Harry was unwilling 
to
> learn, but I can't think of one. The closest I can come to one is 
when
> Dumbledore assigns Harry the "homework" of getting Slughorn's
> memory. And it's not that Harry is unwilling, it's that it's more
> difficult than Harry anticipated.trying to think about another 
subject 
> that Harry was unwilling to
> learn, but I can't think of one. The closest I can come to one is 
when
> Dumbledore assigns Harry the "homework" of getting Slughorn's
> memory. And it's not that Harry is unwilling, it's that it's more
> difficult than Harry anticipated. <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I think this is sort of proves the point that good teacher can make 
> Harry do something he is really not enthusiastic of doing. Harry 
fails, 
> he comes up to Dumbledore, tells him he had all those problems and 
> Dumbledore makes him willing to go try again with several 
sentences. 
> IMO of course.


Julie:
I don't think the two situations are directly analogous. 
Harry wasn't enthusiastic about getting Slughorn's memory
because it was too hard. He'd rather avoid it than have
to deal with it. Eventually Dumbledore gets Harry to try
harder, which he does by making Harry feel guilty for not
taking it all seriously enough and for failing.

With the Occlumency lessons, it isn't just that Harry finds
it too hard and would rather avoid it, it is that he actively
WANTS to fail. Desperately. He wants *exactly* the opposite
of what he knows Occlumency is supposed to achieve; Harry
wants his mind opened further so he can open that enticing
door. And when Hermione tries the exact same approach as
Dumbledore, laying guilt on Harry and reminding him of how
serious the situation is, Harry goes off on her. He isn't
just avoiding learning, he is very deliberately refusing
to learn or try (beyond a token effort or two).

But you asked if Harry could have learned Occlumency from
someone else, and given his intentional refusal to learn
ny answer is a qualified "no." Qualified, because while 
I'm certain Harry would keep his desire to find a way through
that door from McGonagall or Lupin (had either been qualified
to teach him Occlumency), I do think Dumbledore might have
been able to teach Harry, if only because of Dumbledore's
legilimency and ability to read Harry in particular. (Lupin
would take Harry's word about anything, McGonagall might 
doubt but wouldn't press the issue, Snape would--and did--
fly off the handle at Harry's insistence he was doing his
best when he clearly wasn't.) Dumbledore still would have
had to exert a lot of pressure to get Harry to come clean
about the dreams and learn Occlumency though.

Snape surely wasn't the best person to teach Harry, but
in those scenes I actually found Snape behaving markedly
better toward Harry than he did during regular Potions
lessons ("That wasn't as bad as it could have been." and
"Whose dog was that?", the latter asked without a trace
of malice noted). And Harry behaved markedly worse, not
really trying at all, whereas in Potions he usually did 
make the effort, even if Snape couldn't see it or didn't
care. 

So here's my question. If Harry hadn't been so determined
to get behind that door, if he had been willing to learn,
at least as willing as in Potions where he did try but got
discouraged by Snape's nasty attitude, would he have been
able to learn from this marginally kinder--or let's even 
say this merely "not outright mean"--Snape? I think the
answer is "yes."

In the end, the situation simply got away from them. Snape
actually toned down his meanness a bit but still had no
interest in understanding, nor capacity to empathize with,
Harry's reluctance, while Harry was equally incapable of
resisting Voldemort's mental manipulations, or of seeking
or heeding anyone else's advice or assistance. (They were
hemmed in as much by their individual personalities as by
their antagonistic relationship, IMO, which is why I don't
see Lupin successfully teaching Harry Occlumency nor
dissuading Harry from pursuing more Voldemort-induced
dreams.) IMO,


Julie