First lesson WAS: Re: Marietta, was Slytherin's Reputation

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 185803

Marion:
> Lupin is an awful teacher. Now, it might just be because I'm from 
> an older generation, but unlike the kids who grew up in the 
> nineties and the noughties, I *don't* think that bloating a kid's 
> already big head by giving him praise and *sweeties* somehow 
> constitutes 'being a good teacher'. 

SSSusan:
Nor do I, Marion.  But it's not false compliments & treats which make 
me feel Lupin was a good teacher.  OTOH, a teacher who is kind *can* 
make for a classroom where learning is easier to accomplish.  Not 
kindness alone, but I would say that kindness coupled with high 
expectations and respect would do it.

And by respect, I mean not just a ONE-way respect, as in "You will 
call me 'Sir.'"  I don't have a problem with those who feel that that 
kind of politeness, courtesy and respect should be shown.  No problem 
at all.  But I believe that for an effective classroom, there needs 
to be TRUE respect behind the courteous respect.  True respect can 
come from a lot of things -- from a teacher's reputation for 
excellence, from a teacher's reputation for making class interesting, 
and, I would maintain, from a teacher's willingness to *return 
respect.*

A teacher offering respect for students is *not* equal to giving them 
empty praise or provided treats!  In my mind it is listening to them, 
taking their questions seriously, establishing a quality of fairness 
that comes from treating all students as equally deserving, 
attempting to try a new route if students aren't understanding the 
original presentation, etc.  

I'm not staring at my books at the moment, so I can't say 
unequivocally that Lupin had all of this, but imo he had a lot more 
of it than Snape did.


Marion:
> Now Snape exudes plenty of vulnarability as well.
> From the first book, when everybody was whining about how 'mean' 
> Snape was, my overwhelming impression was how *lonely* the man was. 

SSSusan:
I wouldn't argue with you that Snape may have been a lonely man.  
That does not make being mean a simultaneous impossibility.  IMO he 
was both.


Marion:
> First Potions lesson, when Snape keeps a whole classroom 
> mesmerized, Harry and Ron pull faces at eachother (they look at 
> eachother and pull up their eyebrows, which, in British mime 
> means 'who is this weirdo?').... 

SSSusan:
Alla has already replied to this, and I concur.  


Marion:
> But JKR, and most of the readers, seem to think otherwise. 
> Apparantly it isn't important that children learn something. No, 
> what is important is *that the teachers are nice to Harry*.
> It isn't important that children grow up to be responsible, 
> reliable, honest adults. No, it's important that Harry gets 
> coddled, given choccies when he fails.

SSSusan:
Wow, I think this is a really unfair characterization of what Lupin 
does.  I totally believe it's important that students learn 
something!  After Quirrell, who was never raved about for the things 
he taught, and Lockhart, who was a fraud and taught very little 
useful DADA information, the kids get Lupin, and they're excited to 
be studying things of real use!  Grindylows, Hinkypunks (sp?), 
boggarts!  Yes, Lupin is kind, but the students that we see seem to 
respond to that.  Finally, they are getting someone who's teaching 
them real content *and* he's easy to be with, too?  Fabulous!


Marion:
> One would think that after showing Harry to have been the cootie 
> kid versus Dudley the Golden Boy, the author would've taken pains 
> to show that in the WW, where Harry is the Golden Boy, Harry 
> would've handled things better than Dudley. But no, the message is 
> apparantly that the Dursleys weren't exactly wrong for coddling a 
> Special Boy, but that they are wrong for coddling the wrong Special 
> Boy! They should've coddled Harry instead, since he is the True 
> Special Boy TM!

SSSusan:
I truly believe you are using the term "coddling" for "kindness," and 
I do not see those two terms as interchangable in the slightest.  I 
don't think very many people are saying anything along the lines that 
Harry should have been coddled at Hogwarts.  But there isn't one 
thing wrong with kindness, imo.


Siriusly Snapey Susan