CHAPDISC: DH36, THE FLAW IN THE PLAN

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 185297

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at ...> wrote:
>
>  
> > Carol:
>  He says it performs the same extraordinary magic as
> > his other wand, but that wand is perfectly suited to him. It would,
> > IMO, be impossible for the Elder Wand to exceed the wand that
> created the Horcruxes and the protections on the locket Horcrux. 
> 
> Pippin:
> Um, you don't even need a wand to create horcruxes. 

Carol responds:

Forgive me, but where did you read that? Sure, you don't need a wand
to commit murder and, in so doing, split your soul, but you certainly
need a wand to remove the split-off soul piece and *encase* it in an
object. (If you're referring to Harry's soul piece, that's an
accidental Horcrux that occurred only because a Wizard protected by
other [true] Horcruxes from actually dying was ripped from his body
and lost a bit of his recently fragmented soul in the process. Had
that soul bit not found Harry [or his open wound] to lodge in, it
would have been destroyed as utterly as LV himself later destroyed it
trying to kill Harry. But a true Horcrux requires an encasing spell,
which Slughorn either can't or won't divulge to Tom Riddle.

Pippin:
> And Dumbledore found the protections for the locket disappointingly
crude -- they weren't impressive magically, but they were
well-designed to take advantage of the weaknesses imposed by the potion. 

Carol responds:
Dumbledore found the blood requirement to enter the cave
disappointingly crude. He said nothing of the sort about the potion or
the Inferi.

Possibly any skilled Dark Wizard can create an Inferius, but we don't
know of any others who did it, but a potion that doesn't kill
immediately but causes great suffering and mental anguish, relieving
his worst memories, not to mention a burning thirst that forces the
drinker to drink only the water that will activate the Inferi is
pretty impressive. The boat itself will only hold one fully qualified
wizard (the fact that LV didn't anticipate Kreacher's escape or DD's
bringing Harry doesn't make that bit of magic any less impressive).
The boat is designed to propel itself, carrying one wizard to the
island, where the protections on the potion prevent him from
Transfiguring it, Vanishing it, or scooping it away and pouring it on
the ground. Possibly the Wizard could escape after drinking the first
cup of potion, realizing his danger and unable to endure the agony,
but if he did so, the Horcrux would be safe. I'd say that's pretty
impressive magic, myself.

Pippin:

> It's not like there's some kind of destiny at work and one of the
wands which happens to be  at Ollivanders on the day you come in  haso
be the one true wand for you. Harry might feel that way about his
phoenix feather wand, but then, they've been through a lot together,
and it's all he has left of Fawkes. 

Carol responds:
Yes and no. Clearly, some wands are more suitable than others for a
particular witch or wizard. James's was a powerful wand specifically
suited for Transfiguration. Lily's first was was "a nice wand for
Charm work"--too bad we didn't hear more about that. Voldemort's is
exceedingly powerful, and its components, yew and phoenix feather, are
both associated with immortality. I can't think of a wand better
suited to a powerful Dark wizard obsessed with immortality. Harry's
wand is, of course, the brother wand of Voldemort's. It, too, has
components associated with immortality (holly is also associated with
Christ's sacrifice, which was, to me, a hint that he would sacrifice
himself and and experience some sort of "resurrection"). Also, the
wand must have sensed his soul bit and his association with the owner
of its brother wand. The wand symbolism is no accident. Too bad JKR
didn't do more with it. (IMO, Harry's feeling for his wand has nothing
to do with Fawkes, but I'll grant you that part of it has to do with
all they've been through together. But that has nothing to do with its
choosing Harry in the first place. It's clear from Ollivander's
reaction that that particular wand is special, and not only because
it's the brother of Voldemort's wand. I don't think he goes around
making holly wands with Phoenix-feather cores for the average witch or
wizard on the street. Phoenix-feather cores in themselves are
exceedingly rare. We don't see any other wand that has one. The rest
are all either unicorn hair or dragon heart string (unless we count
wands by other wandmakers with, say, a Veela-hair core). Ollivander
would be keenly aware of the symbolism, erm, properties, of each type
of woood and each core.

To get back to kids buying their first wands, of course each new first
year doesn't find the one and only wand suited to him. But a wand will
choose him--or not--based on suitablity. Would Harry's wand have
chosen Crabbe or Crabbe's wand have chosen Harry? I think not. It
strikes me as rather like finding an ideal husband or wife. While the
idea of finding your one true love is the stuff of fairytales, the
idea that any man or any woman will do is patently absurd. Wands must
be compatible with their masters just as husbands must be compatible
with their wives (or vice versa). And, ideally, that compatible
increases as you live and learn together, whether you're a wizard and
his wand or a married couple.

Pippin: 
> Is it your theory that the Elder Wand has no extraordinary power at
all?  I think that's contradicted by the way both Ollivander and
Dumbledore deal with  it. Even Hermione's convinced by the end.

Carol responds:
I think that the Elder Wand is unusually powerful, but so is
Voldemort's yew wand. I think it has absorbed the blood lust of its
previous owners. It would certainly have learned a lot of Dark magic
from Grindelwald, which is why it had to be "tamed" by Dumbledore.
(the fact that he won it without killing its owner probably helped in
that process.) But, in my view--my "theory," if you like--is that the
danger of the Elder Wand is two-fold: its reputation as undefeatable
(contradicted by DD's defeat of Grindelwald) makes Wizards, especially
Dark Wizards (ot those interested in the three Hallows), desire it,
and the wand itself has some sort of power to make others desire it,
as we see with Ron and Hermione. It's not safe to have such a tempting
object at hand; Harry is wise not to want to use it. But in terms of
being more powerful in the hands of a Dark Wizard than a wand ideally
suited to that Wizard, down to a desire for earthly immortality (as
opposed to the immortality of the soul in the afterlife), I don't
think so.

Had Voldemort been using his own wand when he went after Harry in the
Seven Potters scene, *his* wand wouldn't have been destroyed. It would
have fought back. The worst that would have happened would have been
another Priori Incantatem. To avoid that, all he would have needed to
do is have another Wizard disarm Harry and then cast that AK before
Harry reached the protection surrounding the safe house. The AK itself
might have killed only the soul bit, but the fall would have killed
Harry--or, if the shared drop of blood kept him alive, broken his body
so badly that he could not search for Horcruxes or anything else.

Pippin: 
> To show Voldemort figuring out that the wand isn't working would
undermine the logic of the end of the story, where he fails to grasp
that  most of his power is gone. <snip>

Carol:
then maybe he imagined that the wand wasn't working correctly for him.
IMO, he should have stuck with his own, which failed him only once, in
the Priori Incatem. Otherwise, it performed extraordinary magic--not
only according to voldemort, who gives himself all the credit for the
magic performed by both wands, but by Ollivander back in SS/PS. You're
making excuses for JKR's failure to show that wand not working, and I
don't buy it. <snip>

Pippin:
> I think he fell in love with the idea of the Elder Wand, and so he
> never was  objective about how well it was working for him. He was
> either wildly disappointed or wildly enamored, and it had to do with
> his own mood more than with the function of the wand itself. 

Carol:
Oh, I have no doubt that he fell in love with or was obsessed by the
idea of the Elder Wand, a victim, like so many others, of its lure.
But as far as performance is concerned, we see it kill large numbers
of people, we see it turn the potion in the cave clear, we see him fly
using it (when he's Horcrux hunting), and we see him use it to draw
Snape into Nagini's bubble (also created with it), and we see him kill
Harry's soul bit with it. The only reason it didn't kill Harry himself
was the shared drop of blood. Subjectively or objectively, that wand
did everything he asked of it. It has nothing to do with his mood.
(Anger? Kill your own followers? Perhaps the malign influence of the
wand. Fear for your Horcruxes? Search them out and create a protective
bubble for Nagini. A sense that the wand isn't working for him? Sorry.
doesn't happen until it's time for him to kill Snape in front of
Harry, and there's no evidence of the wand's failing him to justify
that belated concern. Plot device pure and simple.)

The only way you're going to convince me that the wand in any way
justified his doubts of its performance is to show me evidence in the
book of its failing to do his will before Harry's sacrifice diminishes
its power. His pursuit of it was a mistake, certainly, but not because
it didn't work for him. It worked just fine. The mistake was that the
wand would turn on its wielder, accepting Harry as its master when it
learned about Draco and turning the AK back on its caster. Perhaps it
had done that before, which might have added to its deadly reputation.
Do not use unless you're the master, and even then proceed with
caution because the thing is treacherous. Not unbeatable. Not more
powerful than other really powerful wands. Just seductive and
treacherous, with a will to power and violence, having absorbed the
evil desires and Dark magic of its previous owners, Grindelwald at his
worst included. (How much did the evil will of the wand itself flame
young Gellert's lust for power and violence? How much did it
contribute to the insane rage that led Voldemort to murder his own
followers? *That* could explain why he suddenly wanted an excuse to
kill Snape.) 

At any rate, I think that the Elder Wand deserves its sinister
reputation, but not because it was Unbeatable. I also think that it
was perfectly suited to do a powerful Dark Wizard's bidding. It had,
however, no bond with Voldemort, no interest in his immortality, and
no true loyalty to anyone--in contrast to Harry's wand, Voldemort's
wand, Bellatrix's wand, none of which, I think, would have switched
their loyalty to a person on the other side of the struggle just
because that person Disarmed their master. 

Carol, wondering (not for the first time) what great but terrible
magic Ollivander was referring to in SS/PS with reference to the yew
wand (he could not have known about the Horcruxes)