Snape's Psycology: WAS: More thoughts on the Elder Wand subplot - Owner?

[Beatrice23]

No: HPFGUIDX 187411

Beatrice: I will be dividing this post into two sections.  The first will deal with the initial question of Snape's worthiness of the Elder wand and the second will talk about this psychology, specifically centering on Harry and Lily.

> > Kemper earlier:
> > So you would trust Harry more than Snape because Snape was a spy?  
> > Snape regretted his actions with the Dark Arts.  
> > > 
> > > We haven't seen that from Harry who became a little more comfortable, a little more cozy with the Cruciatus curse.  To quote The Emperor: [Luke]Give in to your anger, with each passing moment you make yourself more my [the Dark Side's] servant.
> > > 
> > > My trust goes to Snape.
> 

> > jkoney:
> > I'm not sure Snape regretted his actions with the Dark Arts as much as how they led to the death of Lilly.
> > 
> > Snape has already been to the dark side and must fight against it every day. Adding the wand to it would just be increasing the burden. 
> > 
> > Harry's action was brief and he didn't go back after Carrow once he released him. He's already showing his self control.

> Kemper: Harry regains his self control immediately after the Crucio, that's true.  But there's no need for Snape to regain self control even after Harry casts cruios and sectumsempras at him during the Flight of the Prince. There's no need to regain the self control because Snape never lost it.

Beatrice: Perhaps that is the worst part of Snape's action, that he doesn't lose self-control.   Harry uses sectumsepra in essence, because he doesn't know what it does.  It is a spell that pops into his head as he is in full "fight" mode and as soon as he sees what it does he immediately regrets his actions and punishes himself emotionally for a long time after.  And most importantly he NEVER uses it again.  Snape, on the other hand, uses it deliberately during Harry's flight from Privet Drive.  True, we learn that he actually intends to use it against Death Eaters rather than against George/Harry, but no one who believes that Harry's act of using the Cruciatus Curse is unforgivable seems to believe that it is appropriate to use this kind of curse against any enemy no matter how terrible.  (I should note here that I have defended or at least excused Harry for this act, but I won't rehash this here.).  Harry, to me is more worthy, because he may act on his emotions and make mistakes, but he knows that they are his mistakes and he regrets them (or most of them).  Also, when Harry learns of the Elder wand he desires it so that he can save himself during his final battle with LV.  He does not desire it to bring about LV's destruction.  It is a fine line, but I think an important one.  While we don't know if Snape desires the wand at all, there is a part of me that believes that Snape's actions while heroic are ultimately acts of vengeance first against his abusive, muggle father; then against his romantic rival, James; and finally, against the person who murdered the only person he ever loved, LV.  Harry, on the other hand, only ever seeks vengeance in moments of heightened emotion.  In contrast to Snape, whose entire life centers around vengeance.  He is controlled certainly, but as I write this it occurs to me that Snape cannot survive the novel, because he will have no purpose after LV is destroyed.


> 
> Kemper now:
> I agree that he regrets Lily's death more.  But it's evident in The Prince's Tale that he recognizes it was his involvement with the Dark Arts or at least his support of the Dark Arts that brought her death and it is that which he strives to atone for: from his use of Mudblood against her to his chastising of Phineas for using the term to refer to Hermione when no one living was around to hear it, to prove he had changed; from his initial, selfish desire for Lily to live at the expense of James and Harry (see Dumbledore's contempt) to his Expecto Patronum for Harry (see Dumbledore's eyes full of tears), Snape is well into the light.

Beatrice: First, let me say again that I think that Snape is one of the most interesting and compelling characters in the series.  One of the major flaws of the "medium that must not be named" is that they have reduced his character to a cartoon-kind of Jesuit brother, who proctors study halls dispensing corporal punishments with relish –a total waste of a great character and an even greater waste of a really talented actor – okay rant over.

 I don't know that Snape's "initial selfish desire" has changed at all.  When we first see him as a child, his desire is Lily and only Lily.  Snape is willing to do whatever he needs to do to be close to her and to separate her from other (eg. Petunia).  Snape already hates muggles, but makes an exception for Lily.  The reader is led to believe that Snape's hatred comes from the abuse he receives at the hands of his father.  While here Harry sympathizes and may even feel a kind of kinship with Snape because of the way the Dursleys treat him, Harry is able to move beyond the Dursleys perhaps because of his mother's love and her sacrifice.  Snape's mother sacrifices nothing for him or nothing that we can see remaining with the man who abuses both of them rather than shielding her son from damage.

So we move into Snape's adolescence and young adulthood.  Snape is tormented by James certainly.  Both boys are fueled by their feelings for Lily and their contempt for the other position on matters of pure blood.  Not that I excuse James's behavior, but then again neither does Harry and we are only privy to a couple moments of their rivalry.   Snape still hates muggles despite the fact that his great love is muggle-born. Snape seems to place her above muggles and muggle-borns by virtue of his feelings for her.  Even so, he can't hide his hatred and the growing darkness in his heart and eventually drives her away.  

As adults, Snape and Lily find themselves on opposite sides of a very great divide.  Snape seems to relish his position as a Death Eater and as we know relates the prophesy that ultimately sends LV after Lily Potter and her family.  We hear with contempt that Snape has begged for her life over that of her husband and son.  Perhaps Snape even sees this as an opportunity to rid himself of his rivals for Lily, but he also recognizes the danger here.  He doesn't trust that the Dark Lord will spare Lily, perhaps he has seen too much of the Dark Lord's "mercy" and his "rewards."  So Snape goes to Dumbledore as a means to an end and accepts his mission in return for DD's protection of Lily, oh yeah and her family as an after-thought.  

When Lily is murdered and Harry survives, Snape is devastated, but ultimately feels nothing for Harry other than a duty toward Lily at DD's urging.  Snape meets Harry and immediately sees James and Harry's mediocrity.  Snape is angry.  He hates Harry.  He wants Harry to be like Lily perhaps, but doesn't allow himself to her in him.  Snape protects Harry and abuses him at the same time.  Snape protects him, because ultimately he is Lily's son, abuses him because Harry is also James's son and  perhaps because he sees mediocre Harry as unworthy of Lily's love and sacrifice.  IMO  Snape never changes in this position.  Snape has more than one opportunity to see Lily's nature in Harry and Snape fails utterly and completely.  Snape even sees the abuse that Harry is subject to at the hands of the Dursleys and cannot muster any compassion for him.  Harry, on the other hand, is ashamed of his father's treatment of Snape and quite sympathetic to Snape's younger abused self.  When if ever does Snape show compassion for anyone other than himself and Lily?  Even in death Snape only has a moment of looking at Harry's eyes, Lily's eyes before he dies.  Throughout his life, Snape seems motivated by his own selfish desires, no consumed by them and his horrible prejudices.  That he simply shifts his prejudices from one faction to the other is hardly surprising given the way in which he is scarred, but it hardly makes him a noble or worthy person.
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