More thoughts on the Elder Wand subplot - Owner?

[Beatrice23]

No: HPFGUIDX 187418

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "eggplant107" <eggplant107 at ...> wrote:
>
> Sorry for that last message, somehow it got sent way too soon
> 
>  "kempermentor" <iam.kemper@> wrote:
> 
> > I think Snape made it clear that he
> > didn't /like/ Harry which is different than not caring for him.
> 
> Yes I think that's true, and in a way that is the opposite of Dumbledore, he liked Harry, loved him even, but he didn't care for him. 
> 
> Dumbledore says: "If I know him he [Harry] will have arranged matters so that when he does set out to meet his death, it will truly mean the end of Voldemort".
>  
> So if everything had gone according to Dumbledore's plan then both Harry and Voldemort would have died in their first encounter in the forest that night. But as Harry says, Dumbledore overestimated him; he was unable to dispose of the snake. When Harry confronted Voldemort
> in the Forbidden forest both were injured, both were knocked out but Voldemort didn't die because the Snake still lived and Harry didn't die because the snake still lived. If Harry had killed the snake both would have died.
> 
Beatrice:  This is not how I read this at all.  I believe that DD always believed that Harry would survive his encounter with LV.  He simply couldn't tell Snape this.  First, DD knew that LV took Harry's blood which would tie Harry to LV's body thus binding him to earth because LV was taking Lily's sacrifice into himself.  Second, DD needed Harry not to fight back, because by not fighting back it meant that Harry was giving his own protection to the whole Wizarding World, and Harry would not technically be disarmed or vanquished by LV (this works out for the ownership of the Elder wand that DD did not forsee.). Third, Harry must believe that he was truly going to die in order to provide the same protection that Lily gave to him.  Fourth, Snape could not know this in case LV was able to read Snapes mind.  Fifth, I don't believe that DD expected Harry to kill the snake before he "dies" at the hands of LV.  Remember that DD tells Snape to tell Harry all this WHEN LV fears for the life of the snake.  DD believes that Harry, et al will be discovered to be hunting horcruxes and then Nagini will be placed under protection right next to LV.  LV will only lift that protection when he believed that the threat to Nagini and himself was eliminated, eg. when Harry is dead.  Notice that LV immediately removes the enchanted cage from Nagini after Harry's 'death' and then Neville is able to kill the snake.  

> This is what Dumbledore wanted this is what he expected. When Snape responds with horror:
>  
> "You have kept him alive so that he can die at the right moment?" 
> 
> Dumbledore seems to dismiss Snape's reservations as trivial: 
> 
> "Don't be shocked, Severus. How many men and woman have you watched die?" 
> 
> Snape: You have been raising him like a pig for slaughter."
> 
> Dumbledore: But this is touching Severus, have you grown to care for the boy after all?
> 
> Dumbledore is sneering. Dumbledore is sneering at Snape because he is reluctant to passively watch a 17 year old boy get murdered, even one he didn't like. 

Beatrice:  DD sneering?  No, well, maybe a little.  DD is reminding Snape of his own humanity, perhaps hoping that Snape has come to care for Harry a little over the years despite his open hostility toward Harry.  I think that DD finds it difficult to believe that one could know Harry and not care for him.  Think of all of the friendships, and love that Harry inspires throughout all of the novels....far too many to list here.  Snape alone seems to be impervious to Harry's kindness and friendship.  (Well along with other Death Eaters.

> 
> I'm not saying Dumbledore was happy about the prospect of Harry's death, he certainly was not! And I'm not criticizing him; Dumbledore did what had to be done in a time of war, but at least in this instance Dumbledore's emotions seem a little more human than Dumbledore's. And this is coming from a founding member of the I Hate Snape club. 
> 
> Eggplant 
> 
> PS: My negative feelings toward Snape have softened a bit after book 7 came out, but I still wouldn't want to get stuck in a elevator with the man.
>