More thoughts on the Elder Wand subplot - Owner?

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 187419

Beatrice: 
> This is not how I read this at all. I believe that DD always
> believed that Harry would survive his encounter with LV. He simply couldn't
> tell Snape this. First, DD knew that LV took Harry's blood which would tie
> Harry to LV's body thus binding him to earth because LV was taking Lily's
> sacrifice into himself. 

Ceridwen:
If the events at the end of GoF are one reason why you believe DD always believed Harry would survive, then you must actually believe that DD only began to believe that LV's using Harry's blood would bind Harry (I take it you mean Harry here?) to the earth / not allow him to die / create a Horcrux for Harry after the events of GoF and not before.  Before then, DD could not have anticipated any effect from this action because this action did not exist.

Beatrice:
> Second, DD needed Harry not to fight back, because by
> not fighting back it meant that Harry was giving his own protection to the whole
> Wizarding World, and Harry would not technically be disarmed or vanquished by LV
> (this works out for the ownership of the Elder wand that DD did not forsee.).

Ceridwen:
How does this show that DD always believed Harry would survive?  Until DHs, Harry was particularly known for taking action.  PS/SS - went to save the Philosopher's Stone.  CoS - Went into Chamber of Secrets to save Ginny Weasley.  PoA - snuck into Hogsmeade in his Invisibility Cloak after being told by several people not to; followed the dog dragging Ron into the Shrieking Shack and confronted a murderer.  GoF - Saved extras in his underwater task.  OotP - Rushed off to the Ministry.  HBP - at this point DD knew Harry well enough to petrify him on the Astronomy Tower.  Harry is the opposite of not fighting when the fight presents itself.  And, in the absence of DD's knowledge, how can Harry assume that on this occasion he isn't supposed to vanquish the Dark Lord, he's supposed to let the Dark Lord vanquish him?  I don't think this shows that DD could have had the assurance that Harry would not fight when a fight was upon him in order to survive later.

Beatrice:
> Third, Harry must believe that he was truly going to die in order to provide the
> same protection that Lily gave to him. 

Ceridwen:
In my opinion, I don't see how this shows that Dumbledore always believed Harry would survive.  This is another thing Dumbledore needs for Harry to do or believe, yet he doesn't tell him.

Beatrice:
> Fourth, Snape could not know this in
> case LV was able to read Snapes mind. 

Ceridwen:
This doesn't show why DD thought Harry would survive.  It makes a decent leap of logic for why DD didn't tell Snape, but then, it would negate the other things that DD did tell Snape even though LV might be able to read his mind - like the fact that DD was dying all year and that it was Snape who gave him the extra time, that DD asked, even badgered, Snape to kill him instead of allowing or forcing Draco to do it, that the Seven Potters was going to happen.  All of these things would have put a glitch in DD's plans if LV read them in Snape's mind, yet DD told Snape.  I think Aberforth's reading of his brother was correct - he liked to keep secrets and he learned that very young.  It does show that DD might have kept his beliefs from Snape, but not why DD held those beliefs.

Beatrice:
> Fifth, I don't believe that DD expected
> Harry to kill the snake before he "dies" at the hands of LV.
*snipping rest on same topic*

Ceridwen:
This shows what you believe DD thought, and it sounds reasonable.  This doesn't show why DD believed Harry would ultimately survive his duel with LV.

Beatrice:
*snipping*
> I think that DD finds it
> difficult to believe that one could know Harry and not care for him.

Ceridwen:
He may.  He likes Harry well enough himself and it's hard for someone to imagine others not liking the same people that someone likes.  It happens, though; it doesn't make a person any less human for not liking someone that other people like.  No one can be liked by everyone.  No one can like everyone.  It removes a person's humanity to demand that they like someone against their inclinations.  In my opinion, in such a case, the most that can be expected is that the person who doesn't like the other person be somewhat civil, and the best course of action would be to make sure they're not forced together too often.

Eggplant:
> PS: My negative feelings toward Snape have softened a bit after book 7 came
> out, but I still wouldn't want to get stuck in a elevator with the man.

Ceridwen:
LOL!  I wouldn't mind being stuck in an elevator with Snape (I presume you mean in a stalled elevator).  Our one building's elevators don't work more than half the time -  I think Snape'd be just the person to get the darned things moving again ASAP.  :)

Ceridwen.