James and Intent

[julie]

No: HPFGUIDX 186981


> jkoney:
> The first time harry saw the scene was the set up to show James in the worst possible light.

Julie:
Weren't you saying something about speculation not supported by the text? There is absolutely nothing in the text that supports this interpretation and many things that support the opposite, including the unlikelihood that Draco would just happen to come to Snape for help at that moment in time, and the level of Snape's rage when he pulls Harry out of his pensieve memories.

> > > 
> > > jkoney:
> > > We aren't shown but we are specifically told that he did change. Any other reading becomes completely subjective and is how a reader might feel, not what they actually know to be true.
> > 
> > Carol:
> > But that's the point. We're *told.* As an editor, I'm constantly telling my clients that they need to *show,* not tell. And JKR has quite beautifully shown us James being a bully in SWM.

Julie:
This is really the salient point. I for one don't dispute the *fact* that James is a good guy (as in on the "good" side) nor that he is a good father and husband and that he loves Lily and Harry. But JKR chose to tell rather than show (and ANY writer or writing reference will advise you to show, show, SHOW, not merely tell, if you want to really reach and move your readers). As it stands, I don't know whether James was just this good guy around his family and friends, while treating pretty much everyone else as pathetic inferiors (as with the Muggle policeman scene), or if he ever actually felt any real sympathy or charity for those less fortunate, good-looking or talented as himself. 

Basically, James comes off to me as the equivalent of a Weasley twin with a meaner sense of humor. While he may have stopped hexing everyone and anyone for Lily, I don't see anything in the text which shows that he lost his sense of entitlement, or his arrogant carelessness, or his lack of empathy for those different than himself. Which again doesn't mean he was a bad person, nor a bad father or husband (not at all), just that he wasn't the super-honorable all-around wonderful guy Harry once imagined. 
 
> 
> jkoney:
> First we are supposed to have canon to back up our point. In canon it says he changed. But that isn't enough we need to see it. So we get the graveyard scene, the comfort as he walked to Voldemort and the scene in the house playing with baby Harry. 
> 
> We see James unarmed charge to his death to try and buy time for his family to escape. "Greater love hath no man..."
> 
> If that isn't enough, then I don't think there are any amount of scenes or stories that will make you believe that James is good.

Julie:
Again, it is an established criteria in writing that it is ALWAYS better to show than to tell. What if in the text Snape had simply told Harry that James and Sirius once without provocation cornered him two on one and hung him upside down to reveal his underwear and humiliate him? Would Harry have believed it, would he have cared, or would he simply have assumed Snape must have done something to deserve it? Would Harry--or we--have felt the same level of discomfort and disillusionment about James without actually "seeing" the scene play out as it did?

Also, we don't *need* to see James acting in a noble or heroic way outside of showing love for his family in a manner typical of most any husband or father. And yet I can say with certainty that Snape, a guy who was far from noble or "good" at that point, would have charged to his death without hesitation in that situation had Lily and Harry been his wife and child--and he probably would have played just as contentedly with that same child of his! 

So it can just stand as it is--and as it does--with us being told that James grew into an all-around great guy. It's just much less satisfying for many of us than if we'd been given even a mere paragraph showing James as this matured and much improved great guy in action. And it leaves James if not a "failure" on JKR's part, certainly less interesting and well-realized a character than he so very easily could have been.

Julie