James and Intent

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 186982

-> > Carol:
> > Why would he need to show James in the worst light when Harry had already seen that memory? The scenes in "The Prince's Tale," whether they're about watching Lily on the swings with Petunia, losing Lily, begging Dumbledore to save Lily, or casting the doe Patronus, which symbolizes Lily, are all about--Lily. 
> 
> jkoney:
> The first time harry saw the scene was the set up to show James in the worst possible light.
> 
Carol responds:
If you're saying that it's a setup by JKR to show James (who until this point has been idealized by Harry) in a bad light, I'd say that you're right. But Snape took that memory out of his mind and placed it in the Pensieve, along with two others, so that Harry *wouldn't* see it (a wise precaution given Harry's accidental Protego, which revealed random memories from Snape's childhood and youth). He did not anticipate being called out of his office to rescue Montague from a toilet, nor could he have known that Harry would violate his trust by entering that memory, which, for a number of reasons, he would not want Harry to see. (It was, after all, his worst memory, but not because of James.) Snape had, on another occasion (when Trelawney was sacked) left the Pensieve on his desk and Harry had followed him out of the office. No doubt he expected the same thing when he returned this time. 
 
> jkoney:
> But we start to see a pattern with Snape at a young age. He's aggressive toward Petunia because she is a muggle.

Carol:
He dislikes Petunia because she's a Muggle. I suspect that his father had something to do with his view of Muggles. But he's no more aggressive toward her than she is toward him, making fun of his clothes and the part of town he lives in. Had she been kind or polite to him, he might have developed a more tolerant view of Muggles in general. 

jkoney: 
> We see that it is Snape in SWM who draws his wand first, not James. Sirius doesn't cast a spell. So it is one on one. Not two on one. While James is apparently more skilled with a wand (drawing faster the first time and flipping Snape upside down after he's been attacked from behind while Snape had his wand out).

Carol responds:
I don't think so. The narrator, speaking from Harry's pov, says that James started it all simply because Sirius said he was bored. Severus draws his wand because James and Sirius are standing over him, apparently with their wands out--a defensive reaction "as if he were expecting an attack." Severus has to drop his bag and plunge his hand inside his robes, and even though the narrator notes that he reacted extremely fast, James has the advantage. He shouts "Expelliarmus!" which would have been pointless if his wand weren't already out. And Sirius follows immediately, hitting the Severus with Impedimenta as he dives for his wand. That's two on one in my view. Both of them advance on him, wands drawn, as he's lying there helpless, taunting him by calling him names and insulting his appearance. While he's still wandless and bound by the jinx, he tries to use a combination of curses and swear words, at which points James fills his mouth with soap bubbles with a Scourgify curse. And so on. It's most definitely two on one, and they're attacking him while he's down. No wonder Severus hits James when he turns his back. He's playing by their rules. And their provocation, according to James himself? "He exists." Sirius, whom you say didn't cast any spells, hits Severus with Locomotor Mortis as soon as James releases him from the Levicorpus spell on Lily's orders. James removes that hex and has his argument with Lily. He orders Severus to apologize, and Severus makes the irremediable mistake of calling her a Mudblood. At that point, the bullying appears to be over. James is still arguing with Lily. But as soon as she leaves and Sirius comments that she probably thinks that James is arrogant, he turns his fury on Severus, again flips him upside down, and offers to take off his pants. Not exactly a fair fight, and definitely two on one.

I don't think we can say that James is more skillful with a wand under those circumstances even though he quickly retaliates after Severus hexes him with Severus's own nonverbal spell, Levicorpus. We see early on that Severus also has quick reflexes. He just doesn't get much chance to use them because *two* people are firing spells at him. Later, according to Sirius, when James and Severus fought one on one, Severus "gave as good as he got." 

> jkoney:
> First we are supposed to have canon to back up our point. In canon it says he changed. But that isn't enough we need to see it. So we get the graveyard scene, the comfort as he walked to Voldemort and the scene in the house playing with baby Harry. 
> 
> We see James unarmed charge to his death to try and buy time for his family to escape. "Greater love hath no man..."
> 
> If that isn't enough, then I don't think there are any amount of scenes or stories that will make you believe that James is good.

Carol responds:
I want to know how and why he changed from the bullying James of the playground, whom Lily calls a toerag and even Sirius admits was an arrogant berk, to the loving father of that tiny scene.

The conversion is not believable. IMO. You're happy with it. I'm not.

It's as if we saw the Severus of that scene suddenly behaving as a loving father a few years later. I wouldn't believe that, either. (In his case, what we get is a remorseful Death Eater, with one scene in between. If he hadn't let the word "Mudblood" slip and he hadn't had DE friends, that might actually have happened, but in his case, too, we'd need a believable maturation.)

Carol, for whom the unfavorable impression of James created by SWM is too powerful to be entirely removed by a few remarks from other characters or one instance of his playing with his baby son