Snape and Lucius was James and Intent And Snape

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 187067

Alla:
> > > 
> > > I see a third direction, which is just as speculative as ever, they targeted Snape and Snape did all he could to make their life hell as well, probably with the help of Lucius Malfoy.
> > > 

> Kate: 
> > I don't see any of this (above) in canon.
<snip> 
> > Lucius Malfoy was older than Snape and therefore would not have been at school for all the time Snape was there.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Yes, that is why it is speculation :) about the years Lucius was in school while Snape was there.

Carol responds:

That would have been only first and possibly second year. Lucius is 41 in (IIRC) October of Harry's fifth year, so he's six or seven years older than Snape, who was not yet 35 at that time.

So unless Lucius has a birthday in September or October, in which case he'd have still been in sixth year, he must have been in his seventh year when he welcomed little Severus into Slytherin. He might have been Severus's protector for that short time, and possibly Severus ran errands for him or some such thing (which would account for Sirius Black's "lap dog" taunt), but they would not have run around together at school. Big boys and little ones spend very little time together from what we've seen at Hogwarts (and what I've seen in real life).

There's no evidence that Lucius bullied small Gryffindors (though judging from Draco's behavior, I'd be surprised if he didn't bully first and second years in general, with the possible exception of Severus and other promising Slytherins).

BTW, I disagree with the definition of bullying I've seen on the list lately--choosing a specific target and continually bullying that person. I think that, for example, Draco's using a Leglocker Curse on Neville in first(?) year for his own amusement was a form of bullying, whether or not he specifically and repeatedly targeted Neville. And, for the same reason, I think that James hexing people who annoyed him because he could was a form of bullying, too. Not arguing, just stating that I disagree with the opinion that his behavior was just high-spirited boyishness typical of the Hogwarts students. It's just possible--and I'm not arguing that this is the case--that no one came to Severus's aid because they were all afraid of retaliation from James--except, of course, for the Wormtails who were amused by a Slytherin's humiliation. (Which doesn't say much for Ron and Harry being amused later by Draco the bouncing ferret. Maybe all it says is that kids don't think!)

> Kate:
> <SNIP>
> > Off topic, slightly, I can never understand why, in the era the HP books are set that anyone sees Lucius Malfoy as a willing Death Eater.  He's the last one to arrive at Voldemort's 're-birth', Voldemort clearly does not like or trust him, and therefore uses him above others to further intimidate him, but unlike Regulus who can commit suicide to prove he came over to the light, Lucius has a wife and son he clearly adores, and does not want to lose them.  Talk about, between a rock and a hard place.  
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I do not see a rock and a hard place at least in the second war. Say Lucius really really wanted to get out during the first war, but could not. Fine, I can understand that.
> 
> But *nobody* forced him to arrive to Graveyard at all and yes, I know it required a little bit of taking a stand, maybe. He did not. But what's most important to me is that he appeared to me to be quite willing participant in the activities at the World cup, he appeared to be quite willing participant in the battle of MoM, very eager I would say.
> 
> And of course I wonder who forced him to that little diary stunt with giving to Ginny? His lord is dead, nobody is there to threaten him, right?
> 
> It seemed to me that he was very very eager and willing for him to come back.
> 
> And of course we hear how much Lucius hates bloodtraitors which is of course while not a sign of being DE per se, points me to the direction that Lucius is quite okay to be one of them, IMO of course.
> 
> And even in DH, when I agree Lucius is very clearly out of favor and disgraced and humiliated by Voldemort, he is still so eager for Draco to identify Trio to get back in the favor with his Lordship.
> 
> Yes, IMO Lucius is very willing Death Eater, always was.
> 
> Alla
>
Carol responds:

On this point, I agree with Alla. I think Lucius's attitude after he's lost his wand and been humiliated by Voldemort and yet still wants to resume his old position as LV's right-hand man is all the proof we need that Lucius was a willing DE. He certainly wants to capture the Prophecy Orb and give it to Voldemort--and he would have been willing to torture and even kill six teenagers to get it. (He would have succeeded had Snape not summoned the Order.) We see from CoS how he treated Dobby. We also see how he manipulates Fudge and Imperios at least two people in an attempt to help LV get the Prophecy Orb before he leads the DEs against Harry and his friends in the MoM. We also see him participating in the Muggle-baiting (Voldemort indicates that he organized that bit of "sport") at the TWT.

I'm afraid that Lucius Malfoy is not a good guy. About the only good things I can say about him are that he was apparently kind to Severus, welcoming him into Slytherin and maintaining their friendship well past Hogwarts (not such a good thing if he's the one who recommended that LV recruit young Snape!) and that he seems to love his family. But he holds Muggles and Muggle-borns in contempt, abuses House Elves, manipulates and threatens people to get his way, and happily endangers Muggle-born students in the hope of disgracing Dumbledore and the "blood traitor" Weasleys. I'd say that he was perfectly happy as a DE--as long as LV gave him privileges and authority over other DEs. And if he'd had a wand and Draco had been with him, I think that he (and Narcissa) would have fought on the side of the DEs, desperate to show Voldemort that he was loyal and deserved to be rewarded.

Carol, who sees no difference between young James and Draco in the bullying department regardless of House or later affiliation