Lucius and DD was Re: Snape and Lucius was James and Intent And Snape

[Annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 187078


> > Potioncat:
> > Yes, but the world isn't divided into good people and DEs. If Lucius had quit
> > following LV he wouldn't have become a good person, and certainly wouldn't have
> > joined DD.

> > Whatever Lucius believed during the first reign of the Dark Lord, he
> > doesn't seem at all happy to have the old man back. If you ask me, Lucius
> > had become the new Biggest Bully and he didn't like having to give up his
> > position. Especially since his new position wasn't too secure and kept
> > slipping lower.
> >
> > So I think he would have been very happy to be the Big Boss of the DEs, it
> > was LV he didn't care for.
> >
> 
> 
> Marion:
> 
> Interesting, you seem to think that the only 'good people' in the WW are
> Dumbledore supporters.

Annemehr:

The way I read that, Potioncat only said the DD supporters are a subset of "good people."  Which could be debated also, but is beside the point regarding Lucius's morality.


Marion:

> Well, that's your opinion, but I for one would
> think twice or even thrice before alliancing myself to some Glorious
> Leader, who uses people like they are loaves of bread, who loves Power,
> but is so afraid of actually using it that he refuses to act directly,
> preferring to keeping information that might help others for himself and
> reaping power and admiration for being so 'mighty'.
> In fact, I would hesitate to align myself with ANY 'Glorious Leader' with
> a personality cult fetish.
> 
> Lucius Malfoy calls Dumbledore a fool who ruined Hogwarts, and I happen to
> think he was right. Dumbledore was a dreadful headmaster. During his reign
> of Hogwarts several students died (Myrtle, Cedric), all of which could've
> been prevented if only Dumbledore had seen fit to share information (and
> isn't it amazing that during Snape's year as Headmaster, a year where
> actual DE's run riot through Hogwarts, not one student actually got hurt?)

Annemehr:

A couple of points here:

Actually, Dippet was headmaster when Myrtle died.  However, you are quite right that DD bears huge responsibility for Myrtle's death.  As we see in his Pensieve memories of the Gaunts, he is a Parselmouth and so would have been able to hear the Basilisk in the walls.  And according to the memory of the child Tom in the orphanage, he knows Tom was also a Parselmouth.  There is no way that DD didn't know what was going on.  And yet he let Tom go on, Myrtle get killed, and Hagrid take the blame.

You exaggerate a bit saying no one got hurt during Snape's headship, what with all the crucioing of students, but it's true he seems to have done very well under the circumstances.

Marion:

> Dumbledore employed dreadful, ineffective, dangereous teachers (a ghost
> for History, Quirrell, Barty Crouch, Hagrid, Trelawny.. the list goes on
> and on). We know why Dumbles is such a dreadful Headmaster: he just
> doesn't care about the children being taught anything. He uses Hogwarts as
> his personal headquarters, where he can influence gullibe childeren to
> think that he knows best and indoctrinate them into his personal belief,
> the belief that Ambition is the greatest evil evah.

Annemehr:

Given DD's friendship with Slughorn, I don't think that's quite accurate.  I don't see him indoctrinating anyone to think ambition is evil.  I do see him trying to amass a monopoly on power in the WW and then sitting on it.  He hoards nearly all the information there is to be known, and only releases just as much as he must to as few people as possible in order to bring down his only rival in power, LV.

DD was careful that his plan would continue after the death he knew was coming, because he didn't merely want power for himself.  He wanted *no-one* to wield power.  He thought it was dangerous.

As you said above: "I for one would
> think twice or even thrice before alliancing myself to some Glorious
> Leader, who uses people like they are loaves of bread, who loves Power,
> but is so afraid of actually using it that he refuses to act directly,
> preferring to keeping information that might help others for himself and
> reaping power and admiration for being so 'mighty'."

Yeah, I agree.  One person having too much power is dangerous, but then so is no-one having any power (i.e. information) to defend themselves.

Marion:
> I very much doubt that Slytherin was stamped 'House of Evil' before
> Dumbledore got his bum on the headmaster chair, but as soon as he is in
> power, things subtly change, until it's become normal to think that if
> it's Slytherin, their motives must be Evil.


Annemehr:

You seem very sure that any school-wide anti-Slytherin feeling had nothing to do with Salazar's split from the other three founders and an ancient rumor of a monster hidden in a Chamber of Secrets.

I'm not at all sure how strongly the anti-Slytherin feeling extends beyond Harry's circle of friends, either - and with them, it's personal.  True, the rest of the school tends to root against Slytherin for the House Cup, but that is explained by the fact that they'd won it, what, seven years in a row before Harry's first year.  On the other hand, the rest of the school is quick enough to turn against Harry many times.  They're pretty fickle as a whole.