Courtly love in Potterverse WAS: What triggered ancient magic

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 187146

Carol earlier:
> > 
> > JKR says in an interview that he thought that Lily would admire him if he joined the DEs. That sounds ridiculous; he knew that she hated Avery and Mulciber, the DE wannabes, and actually referred to Mulciber (the future Imperious specialist) as "evil." Could Snape, usually so logical (at least as an adult) really be that dim? 
> > 
> > Pippin:
> > It's ridiculous if you think Snape loved a pure, idealized image of Lily. But I don't think his patronus shows us that. Harry's patronus does not change when his image of James gets deflated a bit. Though it is a symbol of James, it is  a projection of what's best in Harry, not James. 

> <SNIP>
> 
> Steve replies:  I agree w/ Pippin about what Snape's Patronus means  <snip>

Carol responds:

Wait. You two think that Snape's Patronus--a doe--represents the best of Snape? Doesn't that make nonsense of "For him? Expecto Patronum!" (when Snape casts his Patronus to show that he'd been protecting Harry for Lily and that he still loved her, "Always"?

Does that mean you think that Tonks's Patronus, obviously Werewolf!Lupin, represents "the best of tonks" rather than the man she loves?

I don't think so. I think that Tonks' Patronus represents her idealized Moony (or the best of Lupin), Harry's represents the best of James (the father who died for him), and Snape's (a beautiful and pure female creature) represents the best in Lily (or Snape's idealized Lily, whose name also symbolizes purity).

It's the Animagus form, IMO, that represents the true (and sometimes idealized self), which is why the not always magnificent James has that magnificent Animagus form, which is represented in *Harry's* Patronus. Now, granted, not every Wizard has an animagus form, and JKR seems to have been a bit confused on the subject, occasionally giving someone the same form for both (McGonagall) or a Patronus form that would have been perfect for that character as an Animagus form (Luna's hare; Dumbledore's phoenix). But I'm pretty sure that Hermione's otter Patronus represents Ron (weasel/otter/mustelid family) and his Jack Russell terrier represents Hermione.

At any rate, a Patronus, according to JKR's website, is a  spirit guardian, not a symbol of the Witch or Wizard's ideal self. And if we look specifically at Snape's spirit guardian, we see "a silver-white doe, moon-bright and dazzling, picking her way over the ground, still silent, and leaving no hoofprints in the fine powdering of snow. She stepped toward him, her beautiful head with its wide, long-lashed head held high" (DH Am. ed. 366).

Brave and brilliant though Snape is, that's an odd Patronus if it represents the best in *him.* Surely, it would be male, at least, and would resemble him in some way. (Since he has a "prowling walk," why not a lynx like Kingsley's?) But a Patronus doesn't have to be the same sex as its caster; clearly, Tonks' Patronus (the new one) represents Remus Lupin, not some aspect of herself. And Snape casts it for Dumbledore as proof of his love for Lily.

Steve:
> Is there canonic evidence of Snape mentioning in thought or dialogue that Lily's feelings toward Avery and Mulciber meant she wouldn't admire Snape becoming a DE? If not, than I see no valid reason to not consider Snape thinking as JKR says that he thought that Lily would admire him if he became a DE.

Carol responds:

Lily calls them "your little Death Eater friends" (even though she indicates that they haven't joined up yet). And she says that Severus can't wait to join up, either. Doesn't sound as if she'd admire him for becoming a DE to me.

here's the actual canon:

"You and your precious little Death Eater friends--you see, you don't even deny it! You don't even deny that's what you're all aiming to be!! you can't wait to join Youi-Know-Who, can you?" (675-76)

So, yeah. I'd say that's a pretty good indication that Lily won't admire him if he becomes a DE.

Carol, who thinks that Lily's Animagus form would have been a doe, and the Patronus is the pure spiritual essence of that doe as Harry's Patronus is the pure spiritual essence of Jame's stag
>