Courtly love in Potterverse WAS: What triggered ancient magic?

[julie]

No: HPFGUIDX 187156


>
> Pippin:
> <SNIP>
> Algie no doubt would swear he was certain that Neville was magical, and was
> only trying to put the matter to rest. And had he been wrong, it would probably
> have all been hushed up, and everyone would have quietly agreed, after the
> second firewhiskey, that it was for the best. <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> We just see it differently. I am not disputing that Neville could have died had he been not magical, but I see no proof in canon that Uncle Algie deliberately put his life in danger and could not care less about it.  What if he was indeed truly convinced that Neville is magical? Careless of him? Maybe, if he did not have a charm ready.  By the way, I mentioned an example of how he could be saved, I did not mean that cushioning charm is the *only* way to do so. 

Julie:
We don't really have any evidence either way (whether Uncle Algie cared if Neville was hurt or killed should he not have magic, or whether Algie would have thrown out a cushioning charm or similar at the last moment). But Uncle Algie did choose a method that put Neville's life in actual danger, rather than making Neville only *think* he was in actual danger. And there have to be dozens of ways to fake actual danger to force out Neville's magic (e.g., conjuring a giant snake that attacks Neville but will disappear the moment its teeth actually touch the boy. Or whatever.) Not to mention, Neville doesn't say anything like, "Uncle Algie says I was never really in danger as he had already charmed the sidewalk into a trampoline." If Uncle Algie intended to interfere should Neville's magic not assert itself, apparently Neville is not aware of that fact. 

JKR never brought up the issue in the books that I recall, but what do wizard families do with their Squibs? I suspect in the old days they acted much like many human cultures who held life cheap, and simply left an unwanted baby out in the cold or drowned it (once common with girl babies in China for instance). Or treated their Squibs as slaves like Merope's father did with her. One would hope in the current WW most families would love their Squib babies as much as their Wizard babies, but given Uncle Algie's frustration with Neville's lack of obvious magic ability, I don't think that is usually the case. If Neville was as valuable and loved a member of the family without magic as with magic, Algie would have just waited for Neville's magic to assert itself or not, content to love the boy either way. 


Alla:
But in any event I do not see how we can compare him with somebody who put the baby in mortal danger and when coming to somebody who theoretically at least could save this baby not to ask for his life?
> 

Julie:
Which makes me wonder what would have happened if Dumbledore had replied to Snape's request to save Lily by saying, "Certainly, my boy. I will place a protective charm on Lily so that when Voldemort comes to get the Potters, he will only be able to kill James and baby Harry, while Lily will survive unscathed. Shall I send her to you once it is all over?"

Methinks Snape would have been quite speechless with disbelief, as would the readers, that Dumbledore would ever consider not saving either James or baby Harry. Not to mention that realization would quickly strike, even while staring at Dumbledore's (likely) placid expression. "You wouldn't--I didn't mean that you shouldn't save the baby, or..." Snape grimaced, "his father."

"You didn't?" Dumbledore asked lightly.

Snape's pale face flushed, and he averted his face momentarily before focusing his fevered gaze again on Dumbledore. "Of course you must save them all! Just promise me you will!"

(I would have liked this version better too, as it would have fit with my original conception of Dumbledore as someone who preferred to shame and manipulate with gentle reprimands rather than harsh, direct attacks.) 

My point is, Snape knows instinctively that Dumbledore, beacon of the light side, is never going to agree to save Lily without also saving James and Harry. (And Snape knows Dumbledore also isn't going to refuse to help the Potters, even if Snape thinks he will likely suffer arrest, imprisonment or even death by going to Dumbledore with this information.) 

Even so, I'm not sure it matters. Snape was a willing Death Eater, even if he joined them more to gain respect and power, and perhaps to seek revenge against those who'd wronged him, than because he had any deep-seated belief in Pureblood superiority or any real desire to torture and kill Muggles. Snape's motives don't alleviate his culpability in the acts that Voldemort and the DEs carried out against Muggles and Muggleborns, whether he directly participated or not. But those motives might explain how Snape was able to change over the years he worked for Dumbledore from a man who only cared that the woman he loved was saved, to a man who in the end saved those he could (like Lupin) even if it might blow his cover, and reacted with fury at Phineas Nigellus' use of the term "Mudblood."  

> Alla:
> >
> > There is a big difference to me between disowning and killing. And somehow I
> speculate that even Snape's mother loved him and certainly did not want him to
> dead, I doubt that this he could learn even in his childhood. No, I think he too
> eagerly learned the philosophy of his master – innocent lives including babies
> are worth nothing, etc.

Julie:
I do think the WW holds childhood as less sacred than Muggles society. At the very least Wizards are more willing to see children injured (maybe because they can usually be healed so much faster from their injuries) and even put into mortal danger (the Triwizard Tournament) than any Muggle parent would allow. And it does seem the WW in general may hold some lives (Wizards) more valuable than others (Squibs). 

I also think Snape did learn the philosophy of his master in regards to Muggles and Muggleborn lives being worth nothing, rather than being raised to believe it. Or he wouldn't have loved Lily. More likely though, he didn't "learn" it (as in come to truly believe it) so much as he subverted his own initial views because accepting Voldemort's views and burying his own conscience was what would lead to achieving his own goals. Much later, after prolonged association with Dumbledore, and after taking a good, objective look at Voldemort's self-serving goals from the other side, Snape came to recognize and honor his true belief that all lives had worth, especially the innocent ones, as well as the lives of those he heartily disliked, like Lupin and Harry.

Julie 

Julie