DH reread CH 12 -- Cracking a Few Eggs.

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 186494

> > Magpie:
> > I don't think I'm taking anything out of context or exaggerating it. First, Harry's bad day has little to do with the definition of Crucio. I know he's in a bad mood, I know he's emotional, and I know he's angry when Carrow spits on McGonagall.


> 
> jkoney:
> He's angry (highly stressed and under the gun because he knows Voldemort is looking for the horcruxes and he has been told Harry is at Hogwarts) well before Amycus spits on McGonagall. That is all part of the context, not just the spitting.

> Magpie:
I know that. But I didn't deny any of that. They're all reasons why Harry reaches for his wand and hits the Crucio button.

>  Magpie:
> > Harry uses the curse named for the Latin word for torture. A curse that we've seen numerous times in canon, and never for more than a few seconds. But only in this instance is it suddenly not torture because it didn't last a long time. 

> jkoney:
> The simplest definition of torture I found was 
> 1) Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion. 2)Excruciating physical or mental pain; 
> 
> Both of those, I believe, back up your argument that what Harry did was torture. 
> 
> I have a problem defining severe or excrutiating pain. Is one second long enough? Does it have to be at least ten seconds? What about the effect on different people? Suppose I can handle more pain than someone else, if the same curse is applied to both of us it torture in both uses?
> 
> When Snape blasted Lockhart in the dueling club was that enough to be considered torture? Lockhart didn't look to good afterwards, whereas if it had happened to Snape I think he would have handled it much better.

Magpie:
I think this canon makes it far easier. It has a spell that's all about causing severe and excruciating pain--even from the same root as excruciating. We're in Harry's pov to feel what it feels like--like severe and excruciating pain. 

Jkoney:
> It seems to me that torture is one of those things that you know it when you see it. And while we may both agree on many things being torture, I don't think that it's torture in this situation. But that is just my opinion.

Magpie:
I actually do think your way of reading the scene makes sense. I may disagree with you on whether Crucio can ever not be torture since it seems to me it's by definition torture in its purest sense, but I do think your reading fits the scene. That's why I disagree with the idea that the author wrote the scene with my reaction in mind. I think if Harry's doing wrong in this scene it's the kind of wrong you're describing. One that's more about a good guy under the stress caused by evil people.

-m