DH reread CH 12 -- Cracking a Few Eggs.

[jkoney65]

No: HPFGUIDX 186487

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "sistermagpie" <sistermagpie at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> jkoney:
> It seems like you are taking it out of context and expanding on it.
> 
> Harry's day started with the break in at Gringotts and ended with him finding his friends in the ROR where they are still showing signs of having been tortured. He's also under a time constraint because he needs to find the horcrux as soon as possible because Voldemort has just been told that Harry is at the castle. Standing in front of him is the person who tortured his friends and who is now spitting in the face of McGonagall. Harry then takes of the cloak and tells Carrow that he shouldn't have done that. Carrow turns and Harry curses
> him.
> 
> Harry hit him with the curse and stopped. There was no excess time, no targeting his testicles, eyes, etc. It was if Harry had TASERed him. People don't consider a TASER a form of torture, unless someone does it repeatedly for a long time.
> That didn't happen here.
> 
> Magpie:
> I don't think I'm taking anything out of context or exaggerating it. First, Harry's bad day has little to do with the definition of Crucio. I know he's in a bad mood, I know he's emotional, and I know he's angry when Carrow spits on McGonagall.

jkoney:
He's angry (highly stressed and under the gun because he knows Voldemort is looking for the horcruxes and he has been told Harry is at Hogwarts) well before Amycus spits on McGonagall. That is all part of the context, not just the spitting.

 Magpie:
> Harry uses the curse named for the Latin word for torture. A curse that we've seen numerous times in canon, and never for more than a few seconds. But only in this instance is it suddenly not torture because it didn't last a long time. 
> 
> The point of the testicle comment was that it was designed for maximum suffering even in small bursts. Torture is used to cause pain. Harry's experience of Crucio shows us that this is torture--far worse than the testicle electrode, actually. Agonizing pain you think you're going to die from. A spell about wanting to cause pain, that's named after the word for that concept. Why would I dial it down to taser for Harry?

jkoney:
The simplest definition of torture I found was 
1) Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion. 2)Excruciating physical or mental pain; 

Both of those, I believe, back up your argument that what Harry did was torture. 

I have a problem defining severe or excrutiating pain. Is one second long enough? Does it have to be at least ten seconds? What about the effect on different people? Suppose I can handle more pain than someone else, if the same curse is applied to both of us it torture in both uses?

When Snape blasted Lockhart in the dueling club was that enough to be considered torture? Lockhart didn't look to good afterwards, whereas if it had happened to Snape I think he would have handled it much better.

If Harry had walked over and kicked Amycus in the testicles would that be considered torture? I know for a fact that it is severe pain when it occurs, your breathing stops, your kidneys feel like they are exploding, your eyes feel like they are going to pop out...

It seems to me that torture is one of those things that you know it when you see it. And while we may both agree on many things being torture, I don't think that it's torture in this situation. But that is just my opinion.