Draco and Intent: Re: Snape and Harry’s Sadism (was: Lack of re-examination)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 186804

 
> Montavllla47:
> Right.  My point was, whether it was Harry (who did choose), or Draco (who  insisted that Harry choose), the *reader* isn't obligated to choose.  <snip> 
> 
> In other words, it wasn't impossible for Harry to become friends with Draco,  but it would have required that Draco modify his values to include respecting Ron and Hermione--even if he wasn't cordial to them.
> 

Pippin:
Right. But the reader is supposed to respect Ron and Hermione, and should feel that Draco needs to modify his values before he can be a worthy friend. 

> 
> Montavilla47:

> So, it's not exactly Draco who finds the Weasleys unbecoming, but Draco trumpeting the classist views of his father.  And those views could have been changed--unless children's minds and souls really are set in stone  at eleven.  

Pippin:
Yes, they could have been changed. But Draco doesn't *want* to change,  and canon shows us why: because it would mean turning completely against his family, whom he loves.

> 
> Montavilla47:
> I don't recall Draco saying that people from Muggle families were the  wrong sort. 

Pippin:
Still don't have my book, but I'm pretty sure that Draco asks whether Harry's parents are "our kind", meaning a witch and wizard, and says that the other sort shouldn't be let in (to Hogwarts), because they don't know our ways. He asks Harry what his surname is, and at that point they're interrupted. Harry is deeply upset, though to be fair, Draco is back to back with him and can't see the effect his words are having. 

But yes, Draco is interested in making friends, but only with certain people. He, unlike Sirius, does not think it would be cool to break family traditions.

Montavilla:
> As for Ron and Harry eventually learning to befriend the "uncool" (Luna and Neville), I think that was a lesson Draco didn't need to learn.  You'd be hard pressed to find two less cool friends than Crabbe or Goyle.  AndDraco's girlfriend, Pansy, is described as a pug-nosed cow.  

Pippin:
We're seeing Crabbe, Goyle and Pansy through Harry's prejudiced eyes. Draco may think they're cool. Pansy at any rate seems to be the leader of her  gang of Slytherin girls, and Crabbe and Goyle are big, strong, and, who knew?, magically powerful. Swots they're not, but then being swotty isn't cool, either.
 
> Montavilla47:
> I agree.  The ultimate lesson about Draco seems that, while annoying  and potentially murderous, he's not bad enough to kill or be left to  burn to death.

Pippin:
So, what's wrong with that as a lesson? Many, many people have been killed or left to die because they were annoying and potentially murderous, and held to views which in the eyes of decent people  were dangerous, self-defeating and obviously wrong.  

> 
> Montavilla47:
> Who is the biggest bully in this scene?  Voldemort?  Because, while I  agree that Draco would have gladly been the biggest bully up to end of HBP, I don't see any indication that he wanted it after the scene with  Dumbledore on the tower.  
> 
> All he seems to want after that, with the exception that ambiguous 
> scene in the RoR, is to be left alone.

Pippin:
But Draco knew that being left alone was not an option. He's just not that independent. He changed sides  when his parents did, and not before.  

You don't think that naming a kid "Scorpius" is an indication that the parent has some issues?  I know it's a constellation name, but there are lots of constellations that aren't poisonous vermin.


> 
> Pippin:
> > I think the books make it very clear that it would be impossible to be Harry's friend and not be Ron's or Hermione's, and I can't recall even a theory that Draco has a secret desire to befriend Ron - please point me at it if it exists. At any rate, Lucius and Narcissa would not have been best pleased. 
> 
> Montavilla47:
  
> 
> But... Draco did visit Ron in the hospital wing after Ron was bitten by the dragon.  He ended up nicking the letter from Charlie, but there's no way that he could have known it was there when he went.  And, that moment does show that Ron and Draco could hold a civil conversation.

Pippin:
Good catch, but surely Draco went because he was hoping to pick up some information about the dragon, which he did. 

> 
> Montavilla47:
> I think that depends.  Plenty of people in real life are close to their parents and yet end up rejecting at least some of their values.  That's pretty much a natural process.
> 
> I mean, Bill probably loves his parents, but he still wears his hair long --rejecting Molly's values regarding hair length.  He also marries a  girl she disapproves of.  

Pippin:
Molly's disapproval didn't extend to  risking jail time to put someone in power who won't allow people to grow their hair or marry people she disapproves of. But she did risk jail time to oppose the Ministry, and we saw how the Weasleys treated the son who defied them on that. I don't think Draco would want to be estranged from his father or have to send back his mother's presents in order not to compromise himself with his new friends. 

Draco could have changed his views, but he'd have had to pay the same price as Percy, Sirius and Andromeda. But why would he even consider changing them, when his relationship with his parents means so much to him? He might challenge them on minor stuff but on the big issues he's Lucius and Narcissa's man. 


Pippin