CHAPTER DISCUSSION PS/SS 10, THE HALLOWEEN LONG

[potioncat]

No: HPFGUIDX 188411

> >Alla:> 
But I believe I am stereotyping based on what book shows me. And well, if you think that no other (or very few) Gryffindors would have done what Harry and Ron did, well that is your right to think so of course, I am just not sure what is your assumption based on.

Potioncat:
Just to make sure we're on the same page, here's the "Webster's New World Dictionary" definition, "stereotype: n. a way of thinking about a person, group, etc. that follows a fixed, common pattern, paying no attention to individual differences. v. to follow a stereotype in thinking about a person, group, etc." Common stereotypes are girls can't throw; football players are dumb. 

I'm not sure if there is a word for generic description based on observation. I could say that the Slytherin Quidditch team during Harry's years was a gang of rough, underhanded players and I think that would be accurate. To say that Quidditch players are rough unruly kids would be a stereotype.

We need to be careful of stereotypes in the WW as well as in RL. Sometimes they sneak up on you. My stereotype of Gryffindors was that they were brave and noble and took care of weaker folks. SWM blew that one out of the water.

 

>>Alla: 
Well, yes and do not forget about selfless rescues, but isn't Trio supposed to be the face of Gryffindors? And Draco the symbol of Slytherins?

Potioncat:
Are you saying that Harry is just another Gryffindor with no exceptional qualities? Because I think he is the bravest of the brave. I don't think every Gryffindor would have reacted like he did to the troll. No offense to Gryffindor; I just think it took exceptional courage for a pair of 11-year-old to face a troll. 



>> Alla:
Oh, I mean, that is nice interpretation, but to me what Sorting Hat says is that one quality is so dominant in the students' characters that this is the reason why they are sorted in one house. IMO of course.

Potioncat:
I used to think that too and I think it's because we as a group hyper-analyze everything. Can you point me to the statement that makes you think that?

I think the Sorting Hat uses the qualities to select the House the student will go into, but that quality is not supposed to limit or define the student. Look at how different the Gryffindors of Harry's time are. Percy, Cormac, George, Neville. Lavender, Romilda.

Here is what the Sorting Hat says to Harry, "Plenty of courage, I see. Not a bad mind either. There's talent, oh my goodness, yes--and a nice thirst to prove yourself, now that's interesting
So where shall I put you?"

I read Gryffindor, Ravenclaw, Slytherin or possibly Hufflepuff depending on whether the thirst to prove himself indicated a willingness to work hard or ambition. When Harry says not Slytherin, the Sorting Hat says how Slytherin would fit.  Then the Sorting Hat picked one, based on Harry's request. It sounds to me as if Harry would have fit well in several houses, but I think he was more comfortable in Gryffindor than he would have been in Ravenclaw.

 
>>Alla:
LOL, Houses consist of students, I think to label Houses and not students is a very artificial distinction, IMO of course. But it is not like we are labeling dormitories, we are labeling the qualities, the philosophy House lives by and people form it, no?

Potioncat:
Yes, we are labeling the qualities and philosophy the House lives by. The House is not a building, but a collection of students. The Houses have had their reputations and standards for centuries and these new first years are coming in, with very little idea of who they are. 

So a student is sorted and something like this would happen, "Welcome to Gryffindor. We are known for our courage." Or "Welcome to Ravenclaw. We are known for our wit and knowledge." The student must believe (or hope) the Sorting Hat saw that quality in him and then can be proud of his trait. (Whether a student is ever put in a house he doesn't want, I couldn't say.) But it isn't "Welcome to Gryffindor, we aren't loyal or clever or ambitious, but boy are we brave!"



>>Alla: 
Hermione is one of the few exceptions, sure, but is she? She is pretty clear on what she values more – real courage or books and cleverness, right?

Potioncat:
Everything above this point that I've written is from inside the story. I don't think the Sorting Hat or the WW is concerned about the worth of one trait over another. As for Hermione, I think she wanted Gryffindor for reasons that are not fully revealed; that's the House she asked for and was given.

 What the author thinks about the four traits is a different discussion. 


>> Alla:
Again, please do not get me wrong, I do not find anything wrong with House system as long as I think of it as symbolical showing of what human being consists of, I think it is fun to think of what courage and/or ambition can or cannot do and sometimes we see more real characters, like mixed, but no I cannot think of Houses as something aspiring in RL.


Potioncat:
Sorry, you've lost me.