Choices/Snape as abuser, SKIP if not interested WAS :Re: CHAPTER

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 188539

Jean:
<SNIP>
It _does_ make a difference how a person is raised and/or treated by others
when they grow up.

Alla:

Of course it does, I have not said that it does not. I am disagreeing with the degree of how much it does. I do not believe that a person who became a traitor for example would have become one if he did not have it in him. I do not believe that a person who became a member of the gang of murderers and torturers would have become one if the person did not want to.

Jean:
<SNIP>
For instance, someone who
grew up in a home where there was a lot of hitting would notice fairly
quickly that Snape only yells, and never hits--even the jar of cockroaches
misses Harry, and that's after Harry does something extraordinarily rude
(for which he never apologizes).

Alla:

Well, no, not just after Harry does something extraordinary rude. Harry did not do anything extraordinary rude on the first lesson. Harry did not do anything extraordinary rude on so many other instances and Snape still abused him verbally as far as I am concerned. Harry did not do anything extraordinary rude when Snape took the book he was reading away from him. Harry did not do anything rude whatsoever when Snape destroyed his potion.

Sure, Snape usually yells, he is not a physical but verbal abuser as far as I am concerned

Jean:
Snape had a valid expectation of Harry
starting up the 'Snivellus' nickname again, and laughing with his friends
over it; the fact it didn't happen is something that Snape could not have
expected. After all, even Lily used that nickname in the Worst Memory.

Alla:

I completely disagree that it is a valid expectation that little boy who just arrives in the world unknown to him will use a rude nickname used by his father he never knew in part thanks to Snape dear.  He is a boy for crying out loud, an orphaned boy in part thanks to Snape. See, I do not like the way Dumbledore manipulated him into protecting Harry, not at all. If I look at the characters from within the story I wish he would have found another protector, trust me. I mean, I am not complaining because otherwise this story would have been so different of course. However, I think Snape owed Harry so so much that this is a debt he should have been paying, I just think he should have been decent enough to treat the boy he helped rob of childhood better. I do not think protecting his life gave him any right to verbal abuse.


Jean:
<SNIP>
As for Neville and Peter--Neville was treated as if he was going to be a
Squib for nearly all his childhood. He could easily have turned into the
laughingstock of Gryffindor. Remember, even McGonagall treats him almost as
harshly as Snape does (leaving him sit outside the Fat Lady because he
didn't remember the password). If the twins had decided to have fun with him
as well as with Ron and Percy, it would have been easy for the rest of
Gryffindor to follow. You can turn someone bad if you treat them horribly
enough; social workers have files and files of clients who were abused and
then later turned up in the justice system. <SNIP>

Alla:

I guess I just do not see the parallels how Neville and Peter were treated by their peers and I do not see the potential for treachery in Neville. Yes, there are abused people who cannot break cycle of abuse and there are those who can. And  I feel bad for all of them, but no, I do not think it is a justification for them to continue abusing others and that is what I feel Snape did to Harry. I do not think you can **turn somebody bad**, I guess this is the main difference.  And sure, of course I agree that McGonagall's treatment of Neville was extremely harsh, unfair and borderline abuse in several situations, I will find my old posts when we discussed this topic about why I do not consider her treatment of Neville to be just as abusive as Snape's, but I certainly agree that it comes pretty darn close.

DISCLAIMER since I know how hot the topic of Snape as abuser always was and is. It is my opinion, just my opinion ONLY my opinion. But it is not an opinion that is ever going to change.

JMO,

Alla