Hermione and her parents redux WAS: Re: Wizarding Top Ten

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 188040


Ceridwen:
Yes, I would be that hurt and angry. The Grangers may be different. <SNIP>


Alla:

Okay.

Ceridwen:
Wizards are no more than human. If I put the kid off her guard I could grab her
wand. Without her wand she's nothing more than a Muggle with potential. Magic
is done with wands.

Alla:

When I said you are not a match for the wizards, I meant it more in a sense that you are not a match for the wizards who may want to kill you simply by virtue of you being a muggle, you know?

I am sure you can break a wand of your daughter who really does not expect you to do that. If she does expect you to do that personally I sincerely doubt that you succeed, but again that is not I meant. I meant that she is legitimately concerned for your lives, and IMO you are pretty much powerless and helpless against simple Avada.


Alla:
> I mean, I see what Pippin wrote and I pretty much agree with her, except I am
> not so sure that there was a consent, I think it is open question, but I mean,
> surely wanting to save parent's life by any means is a forgivable intention,
no?

Ceridwen:
Forgivable intention, sure, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Alla:

I would go as far as to even say justifiable intention.


Alla:
> But even if they did not, if I was Hermione's mother, I surely would be mad
> afterwards, but yeah, I will be grateful too after I calm down.

Ceridwen:
This is where we would part company. I would never be grateful for someone
treating me, an adult, as a child. The dynamics between me and my daughter
would change for the worse forever. I could never trust that child again. I
would be leery of anything that child told me, I certainly wouldn't want that
child to be behind me.

Alla:

Yes, we do. I am not a parent, but I am somebody's daughter and when I became an adult, sometimes I had say or not say things to parents which I considered and still consider to be done for parent's own good. Do I still think so? Absolutely. I do not ever want for anybody to be in this position, but yes I think there comes a time when sometimes child who grew up may know better than the parents.

Note that I say child who grew up. I know Hermione is eighteen when she does that (or not even eighteen yet), but since they had to take up very adult responsibilities, I would judge her actions as someone who is even older in RL.

Kemper:
Because it's not in her character to ask for consent.
She has come up with a decent plan. Change identities and move to
Australia. She's a brilliant witch. She can make that happen. We
haven't met DE's from other continents. It's reasonable to assume
TDL's reach to Australia is very limited. Her parents could
reasonably stay and live there and love and worry and pray(?) and hope
for their daughter.

Alla:

However, characters may do things which they did not do before and since we clearly do not know if she did or did not ask, well I think it is fair to assume that she may have. I mean they are her parents, I would think it is a possibility that she would treat them differently simply because they are her parents.
How do we know that Dark Lordie's reach to Australia is limited? What if he was there? What if her parents decided to travel with their new identities?

Kemper now:
Canon gives very clear evidence of Hermione's lack of concern in
attaining consent.
It was an abusive act done out of selfishness. It was a perversion of love.
It was not an act of love.

Alla:

Selfish act is the act done for your own benefit. What do you think was Hermione's benefit in doing what she did?


Ceridwen:
Only if I intend never to regain my memory and come back to my ruined dental
practice and the house that went back to the mortgage company because I thought
I was someone else for a year and didn't make the payments. By doing this,
Hermione effectively ruined her parents' lives and livelihoods. They probably
lost patients, their practice, their home and everything they had collected
through their lives. Families have been torn apart for less.

Alla:

Quite possible. She also saved their lives. If they decide that impossibility of rebuilding their dental practice is more horrible and impossible to forgive offense than saving their lives, well this is their decision of course.

As I said, I do not like Hermione taking their choice away from them, if she did it without their consent, but I certainly understand why she did that.



Rick:
Another point of view, however, is that DD isn't manipulating as much as
educating and toughening HP. Even Snape as he's leaving Hogwarts in HBP
is really teaching Harry a lesson about life outside the gates. The
choice is always HP's. And, as JKR takes care to point out throughout
the series, it our choices that define us.

Alla:

Yes, I know and disagree with this one, heh. Snape may have teaching Harry, or he may have taking the possibility to engage his abusive tendencies towards the boy whom he hated till he died. And I also disagree that the choice was always Harry's. Oh I know that he chose to sacrifice himself on his own and I would not have Harry any other way. However I would argue that Dumbledore lead him towards becoming the person who made this choice all his life and that I find disgusting. Starting with placing him with Dursleys, which of course was never his choice, then making sure no adults knew about the road Dumbledore put in front of him. Oh sure Harry, tell nobody about the horcruxes and prophecy, nobody but Ron and Hermione. I wonder was Dumbledore afraid that if say Remus or Arthur or Molly actually knew they may have found other possibility to dealing with all this but teenager dying? Oh do not get me started on dear Dumbledore LOL.

JMO,

Alla