Bigotry in the Potterverse/Hermione and her parents

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 188164



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" <dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
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> 
> 
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> > > Lynda:
> > > 
> > > I don't defend Hermione's choice by making up other motivations. She did
> > > what she did to protect them, short and simple. Other children and other
> > > parents have taken similar actions for the same reasons. And from  reading
> > > the books, Hermione said that she had told her parents quite a lot about
> > > Harry. I therefore believe that she did tell her parents "quite a lot" about
> > > Harry. <SNIP> 
> > 
> > Montavilla47;
> > 
> > Yes, the motivation isn't really at issue.  What's at issue is whether 
> > or not Hermione acted with or without her parents' consent.  While
> > the book doesn't directly state it either way, the most *plausible*
> > inference, given Hermione's past actions, and the *plausibility*
> > of any ordinary parents, is that she did act without their consent
> > or input.
> > 
> > That doesn't make Hermione a bad person.  It just makes her very
> > arrogant.  Especially since common sense (and the book itself) provide
> > other, less drastic alternative ways to keep the Grangers safe.
> >
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I was under impression that a lot of issues were discussed in this thread, including motivation most definitely. I mean, arguing that people are defending Hermione's choice by coming up with motivations that did not really exist is questioning it, no?

Montavilla47:

What I mean is that it's a false argument, since, as far as I can see,
no one is trying to assert that Hermione's motive in non-Memory
Charming her parents to forget her existence was done for some
selfish gain.

I know that I think she did it out of a desire to protect her parents.
So, her motivation isn't a problem for me.  It is, as Sistermagpie said, 
a *distraction,* because it gives (some) readers a squicky reaction.  
Because it's an awful thing to do to anyone, especially your parents.

And, while I suspect we're supposed to be thinking how terribly
brave and resourceful Hermione is for doing this, I'm sitting there
thinking, "What kind of a parent would ever agree to that?  Did
they agree to that?  She never really says that they agreed... and
would it make sense for them to do that?  Why didn't she just
do what Harry did and have them put into a safe place?"

Then you get this bizarre image of Hermione just deciding on 
her own to do this without even discussing it with the Order or
anyone else. (I mean, can you see Lupin nodding and saying,
"That's a great idea Hermione--go ahead and do that!"  Can you
see Moody telling Hermione to go ahead and do it, and not 
*insisting* on being the one to cast the non-Memory Charm?)

And, as Sistermagpie noted, there is absolutely no payoff to 
any of this.  We never hear or see any action or plan or even
stray thought on the part of Voldemort or any Death Eaters
about grabbing the Grangers to glean their thoughts for 
information about Harry...

Or the Weasleys for that matter.  Even if everyone believes
that Ron is up in his bedroom with Spattergroit, why not
assume that the Weasleys know as many psychological
insights about Harry as the Grangers (who, after all, have 
barely met him), and kidnap them to get information?

Wouldn't that make a lot more sense than going to the
trouble of creating a fake video showing Hermione 
being kidnapped in some plausibly Muggle fashion in
the hopes that it might be shown internationally and 
that her parents might possible see it?  In the hopes
that she might have let something slip about Harry--
when nobody ever tells the Muggles anything?


Alla:
> And at least two parents in this thread stated that they would have understood, agreed or at least would have forgiven Hermione and no, I am not counting myself, although I would think that as long as I can think about child whom I love as my own, I could give an opinion as well, and I would totally understand her motivation.
> 
> But in any event I did not see any agreement between parents either.
> 
> Yes, Hermione doing it without consent would have made her arrogant or... just extremely desperate to protect her parents at all costs. I would go with desperate, but it is JMO of course.

Montavilla47:

I don't see the two as mutually exclusive.  I see her as both.

Alla:
> The thing is it is not as clear cut to everybody that she did do it without consent as it seems to be to you, IMO.

Montavilla47:

I quite understand that.  And I'll admit that there is a possibility
that she did have their consent.

I just don't find it very likely.  At all.