The impact of SWM (very long)

[Geoff]

No: HPFGUIDX 189910

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at ...> wrote:
 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <geoffbannister123@> wrote:

Geoff  previously): 
> > I think from the reaction of students watching and probably that of 
> > the girls by the lake, that James was far from being the de facto leader 
> > of Gryfiindor at this time. Lily's reaction sums this up. James, and 
> > probably Sirius are seen as nothing more than a show-off group of 
> > hooligans; Lupin and Wormtail probably not so much but James is 
> > doing more than going round hexing people if you believe Lily's list.  

Pippin:
> Lupin explains that everyone thought James was the height of cool. "Everyone"  obviously didn't include Lily. But  Wormtail wasn't James's only uncritical admirer. As long as he took care to pick on unpopular people, I think a lot of students liked that he wasn't getting pushed around by teachers or prefects and didn't kowtow to the stupid rules. And let's face it, they were stupid, from a kid's point of view. Why shouldn't a fourteen year old who has a craving for a midnight snack have just as much right to go down to the kitchens and get one as a teacher? Why should they have to put up with being snarled at and stalked by petty tyrants like Filch?

Geoff (currently):
I didn't mention Lupin in my quotes from SWM, but in the light of your 
observation, some of the canon is interesting:

 "Lupin had pulled out a book and was reading.'
(OOTP "Snape's Worst Memory" p.568 UK edition)

'Lupin and Wormtail remained sitting: Lupin was still staring down at his
book, though his eyes were not moving and a faint frown line had
appeared between his eyebrows...'
(ibid. p.569)

'Many of the surrounding students laughed, Sirius and Wormtail included 
but Lupin, still apparently intent on his book, didn't and nor did Lily.'
(ibid. p.570)

Although I like Remus Lupin as a character, I am beginning to wonder 
whether Lupin is to James as Elphias Doge is to Dumbledore, the latter 
being so pro-Dumbledore that he explained everything away
and could only see good, or so it appeared in his obituary in DH.

I think that a sixteen year old who sees another student picking on 
someone, filling their mouth with bubbles, dangling them in the air,
calling them names and quite viciously stupefying or petrifying them,
ought to be suspicious of the attitudes of that student and see a bully
rather than someone to be admired.

Pippin: 
>  It'd be interesting to know why Lily thought James was a toerag but Avery was evil, since I think it bears on her decision to see Snape's choices as final in a way that James's were not. My guess is that  neither she nor James ever  experienced what it was like to be alone and friendless for very long. They could understand the pain, but not the damage. 
 
Geoff (currently):
My suspicion is because James was in Gryffindor and the others in Slytherin.
I think that the "all Slytherins are evil" was an attitude that existed long
before Harry met Ron.

Geoff ((previously):
> > This event is  a pivotal point in the entire story because it sets up 
> > events which, apparently a school yard spat will reshape three people's 
> > lives. Snape's links to Voldemort, Lily's sacrifice and the long-running 
> > unravelling of the prophecy binding Harry and Voldemort to its final 
> > denouement 22 years later all stem from this moment on a summer 
> > day in their Fifth Years.
> 
> Pippin:
> If you lay the US hardcovers in order side by side you will find SWM almost exactly in the middle -- just where a pivotal event should be.

Geoff:
What a strange comment. I went off to do a bit of Maths. The seven 
Bloomsbury UK editions add up to 3408 pages which according to your 
pivotal theory places it at page 1704.  This is actually about the third 
page of "The Hogwarts High Inquisitor" which puts your pivotal point
about 300 pages (or 10%) upstream of that.

But if you know anything about Applied Maths and engineering, the pivotal
point doesn't have to be at the centre of an action. A simple example is a 
see-saw. If two people of different weights sit on lone, the heavier person 
has to sit nearer the pivot. So it would seem that there is slightly more weight
in the books' action after this chapter than before... Or is there? On a timeline, 
this action , which I believe controls the story from then on, drives the action 
from 15 years before the opening chapter of PS. Hence, the whole of our 
see-saw mechanics is distorted...  So what? I can't see why it's bothering you.