The impact of SWM (very long)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 189920

Geoff:
> Although I like Remus Lupin as a character, I am beginning to wonder 
> whether Lupin is to James as Elphias Doge is to Dumbledore, the latter 
> being so pro-Dumbledore that he explained everything away
> and could only see good, or so it appeared in his obituary in DH.

Pippin:
Lupin didn't explain everything away; you can see that he's uncomfortable although he doesn't speak up. I think he's more comparable to Harry near the end of HPB. Harry's afraid to make his objections to what Dumbledore is doing any more forceful, lest Dumbledore change his mind and decide not to bring him on the horcrux hunt. Lupin describes similar feelings in PoA. He felt he was betraying Dumbledore's trust and  he put those feelings aside because he wanted the adventures with James to continue.

Geoff:
> I think that a sixteen year old who sees another student picking on 
> someone, filling their mouth with bubbles, dangling them in the air,
> calling them names and quite viciously stupefying or petrifying them,
> ought to be suspicious of the attitudes of that student and see a bully
> rather than someone to be admired.

Pippin:
I think so too. But JKR shows us that, alas, it doesn't always work that way. People don't see the nastiness and get concerned. They have to be  concerned before they can see the nastiness, especially nastiness that's outside their experience. If James had used the cruciatus curse on Snape, people would have recognized that as evil, IMO. But hey, he's just making Snivellus blow bubbles, right? I don't think they care enough about old Snivelly to perceive what James is doing as really bad. 

JKR put me in the same position -- I have to confess that the first time I read the Ton-tongue toffee chapter I laughed my head off. I don't think it's funny now, because JKR made me feel differently about Dudley. 

To return to SWM, I don't think even Lily sees the nastiness for what it is. To judge by her words, she's more upset by James's aggressive and  conceited behavior than the prospect of serious harm to Snape. 

Geoff:
> 
> But if you know anything about Applied Maths and engineering, the pivotal
> point doesn't have to be at the centre of an action. A simple example is a 
> see-saw. If two people of different weights sit on lone, the heavier person 
> has to sit nearer the pivot. So it would seem that there is slightly more weight
> in the books' action after this chapter than before... Or is there? On a timeline, 
> this action , which I believe controls the story from then on, drives the action 
> from 15 years before the opening chapter of PS. Hence, the whole of our 
> see-saw mechanics is distorted...  So what? I can't see why it's bothering you.

Pippin:
It's a plot-nerd kind of thing. There's usually a some development in the middle of a story that shakes up the characters and sends them towards the conclusion along a path they didn't realize they were going to take. It isn't bothering me, I'm just taking note of the plot mechanics. Although this incident took place years before Harry was even born, Harry experiences it when he is the same age as the participants, just about midway through his story, and  for the first time he discovers some sympathy for Snape. 

It seems for a long time as though nothing comes of it, until, when he relives the incident for the second time in DH , he is able to understand that it was rage and humiliation, not evil, that made Snape use "the unforgivable word."

Pippin