Snape and Harry and expulsion WAS: Re: CHAPTER DISCUSSION Chamber of Secrets

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 188810

 
> Alla:
> 
> While I disagree with Jerri's argument, I understand the example she brought up, Snape there does not bring up expulsion. Here as you said it yourself Snape says that any other student would be suspended, so to me this example is not relevant, whether very strongly or not, Snape does bring up the idea and I thought he says that kids were confunded when they start to advocate for Sirius, not to argue that they should not be expelled lol.

Pippin:
Actually, the kids haven't had a chance to advocate for Sirius. Fudge assumes that Snape's cut is Black's work, and Snape says "As a matter of fact, it was Potter, Weasley, and Granger, Minister...." 

At this point the kids haven't had a chance to say anything. Nor is there the slightest chance they would be believed even if Snape hadn't been the one who suggested they were confunded. Without proof that Pettigrew is alive, no one is going to believe them.

Snape says that any other students would be suspended "at the very least" -- Clearly Snape is in favor of treating Harry more strictly. But he doesn't press expulsion here  though he implies that he could, even for lesser offenses.


> 
> Alla:
> 
> Not turning Sirius over to the Dementors is definitely matter of opinion. To me that is exactly what he did, but again I do not see how it is relevant here.

Pippin:
Snape said he didn't see any need to take Sirius to the castle, he could just call the dementors. In the event, he took Sirius to the castle. He had no way of knowing that Fudge was still there and would call for the kiss immediately -- for all he knew the Minister had left hours ago. He turned Sirius over to Dumbledore,  knowing that Dumbledore was not going to let dementors into the castle if he could help it.  

My point is that Snape's words are not a good predictor of his actions. 

> 
> Alla:
> . My initial point was that I am convinced that Snape himself **wants** Harry expelled and thus could not reconcile his protection of Harry. It is not that I am closed to the arguments that Snape does not want Harry expelled, I just so far found them unconvincing.
> 
> Pippin:
> Would Snape have liked to see Harry suspended for a while, or better yet, on his
> knees, pleading to stay at Hogwarts? Of course! Subconsciously, IMO, Snape
> wants to make Harry feel the way that James made him feel: frightened,
> humiliated and hopelessly inferior. And he never misses a chance to do that.

> Alla:
> 
> I think you are weakening your argument here. It is really not a long road to travel from what you describe to what I think Snape wants IMO.


Pippin:
Ah, but it is a long road for JKR. The whole premise of the books is that hating someone. wanting to make them feel frightened and humiliated and miserable,  and wanting them dead, are two entirely different things. If you can't buy into that, then of course the characters' actions are not going to make sense. Harry greatly fears that Snape wants him expelled, just as he greatly fears that Snape wants to kill him. But he's wrong on both counts.

JKR wants us to see that we fear hatred too much, so, like Harry, we fixate on that, and ignore the perils of indifference, not to mention misguided good intentions. Quirrell and Fake!Moody come much closer to killing Harry than Snape does, and yet they don't hate him at all. 

Pippin