Snape and Harry and expulsion LONG

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 188875


Montavilla47:
I think we'll have to keep on disagreeing about whether
this remark amounts to abuse or not. My dad is dead and I
miss him a lot, but if someone said mean about him, I would
think about the many, many people who loved him and have
told me what a great guy he was.

That's just something people tend to learn. That's what
schoolyards and gym class are for, aren't they?


Alla::
LOL, I did not think you considered anything that Snipe does to be abuse, I am not sure why you specifically singled out this episode as something we disagree on. I think we just disagree on whether Snipe is an abuser in general.

My dad is dead too and I miss him terribly as well. If anybody would have had a nerve to start badmouthing him to me, I of course would have remembered all people who think and say good things about him, however the person who would have said bad thing would have ceased to exist for me, period, and end of story. About dead good or nothing was grilled in me too early for too long.  I would have thought that such person has no class, no respect for me, and as I said, I would have stopped maintaining any relationship with such person. However, I do not think I would have considered myself verbally abused by such remark, especially now when time passed and pain is muted. And I have had twenty something years with my dad and good times to remember him by. Harry however, who had a bit over a year with his parents and mostly dreams to remember them by? Yes, I think this is an incredibly vulnerable area for him and Snipe is preying on his vulnerability as vulture, hitting below the belt so to speak.


Montavilla47:
You're right that he's never rude to Minerva or Dumbledore, even
when he's "above" Minerva in DH. On the other hand, she's pretty
darn rude to him at that moment.

Alla:

Good for her I say, good for her.


Montavilla47:
He probably did. But he didn't really manage to do that,
did he? Which brings us back to the idea of "weenie" dark
impulses.

Alla:

That is certainly a matter of opinion. I happen to think based on this quote that he managed to humiliate Harry pretty darn well personally. Oh and I am looking at this chapter and cannot find the words where **Harry** wants to make an entrance looking as he is, I only see Snape telling him that he wants to do that.

I am going to start quoting after Snape takes points off.

"The fury and hatred bubbling inside Harry seemed to blaze white-hot, but he would rather been  immobilized all the way back to London than tell Snape why he was late.
`I suppose you wanted to  make an entrance, did you?" Snape continued. "And with no flying car available you decided that bursting into the Great Hall halfway through the feast ought to create a dramatic effect."
Still Harry remained silent, though he thought his chest might explode. He knew that Snape had come to fetch him for this, for the few minutes when he could needle and torment Harry without anyone else listening" – p.161, amer.edition paperback.

Alla:

"To needle and torment", "his chest might explode" – those descriptions are more than enough for me to think that Harry was hurt and humiliated a lot.


Montavilla47:
I think was Mike Smith who mocked Snape as "Snape: The
Villain Who Assigns Extra Homework!"

Alla:

I had read Mike Smith, I think parody of one chapter, I am not even sure if it was with Snape, but how to put it politely? I was terribly unimpressed, thus I am not inclined to give his opinions of anything Harry Potter much weight and that includes Snape, sorry.


Montavilla:
Seriously. As a bad guy, Snape's on about the level of
the principal in Ferrous Beuller's Day Off. Or Wiley E. Coyote.

Alla:

I understand that this is your opinion, yes. It is not mine, I think in our everyday life Snape would be much scarier villain than Voldemort. Meaning that I can see somebody like Snape being allowed to exist peacefully and do all the damage he could do to kid who has a misfortune to look as his former enemy, while of course all decent people would raise to fight a monster like Voldemort.


potioncat:
As you describe Snape, it sounds as if he get such thrill from torturing Harry,
that it would be a huge effort on his part to send the boy away. That abusing
Harry is so much fun, Snape seeks out opportunities to engage in the behavior
just for fun, and would hate to see it end.

I used boy toy because sadism has a sexual aspect, and that sounds like what
your post is implying. (or what I'm inferring from your post.) <SNIP>


Alla:

No, not all definitions of sadism include sexual component, I am pretty sure that we went through it in one of the past rounds of this topics, I think there are three definitions, here:

1.	The deriving of sexual gratification or the tendency to derive sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others. 
2.	The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from cruelty. 
3.	Extreme cruelty.

I think second and third definitions fit Snape nicely.

JMO,

Alla