Snape and Harry and expulsion LONG

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 188878

Montavilla47:
I guess this is what I was thinking about:

"Not now, Hermione," said Harry, in a darkly
significant voice. He hoped very much that they
would all assume he had been involved in something
heroic, perferably involving a couple of Death Eaters
and a dementor."

HPB, p. 163, U.S. Ed.


Alla:

That's not Harry **wanting** to make an entrance, that's Harry hoping that they
would interpret his **forced** entrance after the fact as something more heroic
than something humiliating I thought.



Montavilla47:
I read over that passage again and it's cracking me
up how just the sight of Snape--before Snape even
says a word--fills Harry to the bursting point with
hatred and loathing.

Also, the heavy Harry filter in that scene makes it
impossible for me to take any of it seriously. <SNIP>

Alla:
Frankly, I find the expression "Harry filter" to have no relevance to this scene
whatsoever. Narrator, who is in Harry's head tells us how Harry feels. Just as
in the first lesson narrator does not describe anything that actually did not
happen or did not describe any feelings that are fake and tells us later on that
Harry did not feel it. I do not see anything "filtrated" here.

What I do get from your argument is that you do not seem to think that Harry
should have felt that way. That's not Harry's filter in my view, that's your
filter as a reader. I do not mean it in a bad way, we all have those filters I
think, but as I said I just disagree that Harry's filter is at works here.

As far as I am concerned I disagreed with your earlier point that Snape did not
manage to humiliate Harry here and I proved it with canon. Unless you can show
me the canon that says that no he was not, the argument that "you cannot take
Harry's feelings seriously" just does not work for me as a rebuttal.

Montavilla47:
We've *seen* Harry being tormented by a teacher
and this ain't it. <SNIP>

Alla:

Again, you are not Harry. If you feel differently when Harry should have feel
tormented and humiliated than when he does, that to me does not mean that Harry
was not feeling it.

ETA:

That's what I get for posting before having my coffee. Here is my example of the same thing, I think. I certainly feel differently than Harry about his generous forgiving of Snape at the end of the books and naming his son (yuck) in Snape's honor. But it would never enter my mind to argue that Harry was not really forgiving him, because I as a reader do not feel that way.

Montavilla47:
Honestly, I don't think it's Snape humiliating
Harry in that chapter. It's Harry who did it. Snape
simply refused to let Harry off the hook and
forced him to endure the consequences of his
own lack of judgment. <SNIP>

Alla:

Yes, I know. It is all Harry's fault. Oh by the way, I just realized something,
although I am sure it was mentioned in the past, Snape sees teenager with the
blood on his face and not ever tells him to go to the nurse. I guess not
treating his possible injuries also included in "consequences of his own lack of
judgment"? Not that I agree that Snape had any right to do what he did of
course, just wondering what it takes in your opinion.

JMO,

Alla