Snape and Harry and expulsion LONG

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 188895

Montavilla47:
By the time Snape gets around to sending Harry into the
Hall, he's had an entire walk up to the castle with the sulkiest
seventeen-year-old in the world. (And that's including
Draco!) He's twice left opportunities for Harry to explain
what happened, and Harry defiantly sulked back at him.

 
Alla:

Harry does not owe him to explain what happened before he came to Hogwarts, I do not think. 

Montavilla47:
And I'm sorry. It's just not the most humiliating thing
in the world. Or maybe it's just me.


Alla:
I am sorry for being a parrot, but you are not Harry.  I do not mean to keep making  "you centered" argument, believe me they are not my favorite thing in the world, but I honestly do not see how else I can respond to it. I am sympathetic to Harry, I feel for a boy w


Alla:
>
> Aha, I think I understand. You think Snape had a right to do what he did and
Harry needed and deserved to get what he got, just as pouty four year old did?
If so, I have no response, really. I am just getting another confirmation that
where Harry and Snape are concerned we are reading different books.

Montavilla47:
1. Yes, Snape had a right to do what he did. He's a
teacher and it's part of his job to exercise authority
over miscreant students.

Alla:

Okay, at least I understand where you stand now, I think. You think that teacher can do any thing to a student, right? I mean, I am sure you do not think he can kill a student or anything like that, but basically you think that teacher can walk up to a student and order him to do anything as long as student is at school. If I describe your position correctly, it is certainly not mine. I do not believe Snape can punish Harry for the accident that he does not even know occurred.

Montavilla47:
2. Yes. Harry was acting like a spoiled brat and he
certainly should not have been indulged in that behavior.

Alla:

Acting as a spoiled brat in your view is what exactly? Being angry at Snape for Sirius' death?



Montavilla47:
3. I think we are. Quite possibly I'm reading a different
book than the one JKR was writing. But I stand by
my interpretation of this scene. I'm not gong to say that
Snape's the epitome of goodness in this scene, but
I don't think Snape is acting nearly as unjustly as
Harry believes.

Alla:

Sorry, but if you are saying that Snape was completely justified in what he did to Harry in that scene how is it Snape not acting as epitome of goodness? 


Montavilla47:
<SNIP>
Since you ask, yes. Students are expected to behave
properly, even on the train to Hogwarts. They are not
expected to invade the privacy of other students through
the use of magical spying tools (not that Snape
knows about that).

They are also not expected to go around breaking
other students's noses and hiding them with invisibility
cloaks--but Snape has no reason to know that Draco
did that, either.<SNIP>


Alla:

Actually I do not remember saying anything about Harry's behavior on the train being justified in any way, shape or form. If Snape had **witnessed** what had happened, I would have fully expected him to punish Harry for it. He however did not, if you are saying that Snape KNOWS about it, well, then he used a legilimency on the student without his permission, which I thought Snape did not do. Then if he knows it, would be nice if he said it out loud, but it seems that you agree that Snape does not know it, so I do not see what Snape was punishing Harry for here.


Montavilla:
<SNIP>
Since I know that Harry's already been healed, I
don't see why I should be upset that Snape doesn't
send him to the nurse. He didn't send Harry and
Ron to the nurse in CoS, either. And they had
just been beaten up by a willow tree!


Alla:

Yes, you as a reader know that. Snape does not know that in my opinion. I thought that Tonks have not mentioned anything about asking her patronus to convey a message about Harry's medical condition. Snape is so concerned about the safety of the Chosen one that blood on his face does not concern him, and of course he is simply acting as a teacher within his authority, right? I of course disagree with it, but I would have thought that teacher would have remembered that making sure that students' injuries are healed also within his authority. Unless his authority only works one way – he is allowed to hurt and humiliate Harry as much as possible and what little physical suffering is? As long as Harry is alive, right?

As an aside, I realized after rereading this chapter that I want to thank Nagini all over again with all my heart. Thank you Big Nasty Snakey for sparing other Hogwarts students from enduring Severus Snape ever again in their lives. Obviously as I mentioned before the picture of his death itself does not please me, I would have much rather thanked a character for taking him out with Avada, but I will take what I can get.

potioncat:
What I've always wondered is why Tonks didn't clean the blood off. That's part
of treating a wound as far as I'm concerned. I'm not pleased with either Tonks
or Snape as far as the blood goes.


Alla:

Neither am I pleased with Tonks, neither am I, please be assured about that. The fact it adds to my disgust with Snape in this chapter, does not mean that I think Tonks acted rightly.

JMO,

Alla