Doing it for Lily? was Re: Snape and Harry and expulsion LONG

[nikkalmati]

No: HPFGUIDX 188927



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lealess" <lealess at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "nikkalmati" <puduhepa98@> wrote:
> > <SNIP>
> >I do have one problem though.  What in the world was DD's plan?  DD did not know Harry would live and it does seem to have been a near thing.  Therefore, who was going to kill LV after Harry died and took the horcrux with him?  Did DD expect Snape to use the Elder Wand to do the deed?  Did he expect some other order member to kill him?  Did he tell Snape anything about how LV would be disposed of?
> > 
> > Nikkalmati
> >
> 
> From the King's Cross chapter, I think we are meant to conclude that Dumbledore planned everything that happened, less the incidentals.  He suspected Harry would survive Voldemort's killing curse that would eliminate the soul piece.  He tells Potter that Voldemort's intake of Lily Potter's blood keeps him alive.  He was waiting for Potter to tell him he had a choice to pass on or go back.  Why would Potter return except to finish what he started?  I suspect Dumbledore knew Potter would be the one to finish Voldemort.
> 
> Dumbledore's will left the Sword of Gryffindor to Potter, to tell him how to destroy horcruxes.  He left the Deluminator to Ron Weasley, knowing that Ron would leave the quest and need a way to return.  He left the Hallows story to Hermione Granger, hoping to divert Harry, or so he said.  He left the Snitch to Potter to open at the close, knowing Potter would willingly go to his death.  Dumbledore put all the pieces in place, and waited for the story to play out.  The rest was just so much filler.
> 
> The only part of his plan Dumbledore admits didn't work as he intended was Snape not ending up with the Elder Wand.  We aren't told why that was important.  From Snape's reaction in the Shrieking Shack, I think it's safe to conclude Snape didn't even know about the Elder Wand.  I think Dumbledore knew Voldemort would attack Snape to get a wand that could defeat Potter.  This part of the plan makes little sense except as a way to kill Snape.  It even subverts Snape's getting a message to Potter.  But lo, it all worked out to Potter's best interest in the end.
> 
> I don't think Dumbledore expected Snape to kill Voldemort.  I think he had faith that it would be Potter.  Or, as he says, "I guessed.  But my guesses have usually been good."  And, because Dumbledore had secret information and good guessing skills, Snape put his faith in Dumbledore's plan, even though that never worked out well for Snape personally.
> 
> lealess
>
Nikkalmati

What we see in DH is Plan D, if anything.  Dumbledore at first, when Harry came to school, thought that Harry would have to die at LV's hand and possibly he (Dumbledore) would have to kill LV. Plan A.

After LV revived himself in GOF with Harry's blood Dumbledore began to think Harry would survive because LV had extended his mother's protection by taking Harry's blood into himself.  He still had no reason to believe Harry could kill LV, and probably thought he would have to do it himself, after he had found all the Horcruxes.  He started searching LV's past and tried to find out how many Horcruxes there were from Slughorn.  Plan B.   

After he was cursed by the ring and had to realize he would not be around to mop up, DD had to consider what would happen after Harry went to his death.  He gave Snape the task of informing Harry that he had a piece of LV in him that could only be removed by Harry's dying, but apparently did not tell him about the Horcruxes.  (As he is going out the door of the office in DH, Snape asks why Harry needs the sword and DD's portrait refuses to say.)  DD has no reason to believe Harry will end up as Master of the Elder Wand and so he has no reason to believe Harry can defeat LV.  He admits to Harry in King's Cross he intended for Snape to take the wand, after killing him.  He must have intended for Snape to kill LV.  Of course, that means the wand would be back in circulation, but I can't think DD believes Harry has the power to kill LV in a duel.  Plus, he wants Harry to remain innocent of homicide.  (Plan C)

We know Draco ended up the Master of the Wand - without knowing it.  It is not clear whether Snape knew about the Wand's power.  He must have known that LV took DD's wand, because he let LV into the Hogwart's grounds and I imagine LV left the tomb a mess when he left.  I can't imagine he is the type to clean up after himself.  :>).  As each wand is special, I believe Snape also would recognize DD's wand in the hands of LV when he next saw him.  What actually happens could not have been anticipated by DD.  Harry became Master of the Wand, LV did not try to kill Harry again in the forest or order one of his minions to do it for him, because he thought Harry was really dead this time, and when they met in the Great Hall, the Wand knew Harry was its Master and would not kill him.  LV's own curse killed him so Harry remained innocent.  Harry plans never to use the Wand again.  (Plan D).

Nikkalmati