Doing it for Lily? was Re: Snape and Harry and expulsion LONG

[lealess]

No: HPFGUIDX 188931






--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "nikkalmati" <puduhepa98 at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> What we see in DH is Plan D, if anything. Dumbledore at first, when Harry came to school, thought that Harry would have to die at LV's hand and possibly he (Dumbledore) would have to kill LV. Plan A.

I agree that the plan changed over the years as more information became available to Dumbledore, but based on the Prophecy, which stated "either must die at the hand of the other," I think Dumbledore always believed that Potter would have to kill Voldemort.  He was training him up and laying challenges in his path to prepare him for this task.

I think it was the destruction of Diary Tom in COS that clued Dumbledore onto Horcruxes and the possibility of Potter being one in need of destruction.

> After LV revived himself in GOF with Harry's blood Dumbledore began to think Harry would survive because LV had extended his mother's protection by taking Harry's blood into himself. He still had no reason to believe Harry could kill LV, and probably thought he would have to do it himself, after he had found all the Horcruxes. He started searching LV's past and tried to find out how many Horcruxes there were from Slughorn. Plan B.

I'm with you on the blood protection enabling Potter to survive, and Dumbledore knowing that and taking some comfort from it.  I still think he expected Potter to have to kill Voldemort because of the Prophecy.  Dumbledore could protect and train Potter, excluding most of OOTP, and there, he could duel with Voldemort (but not kill him, even with the Elder Wand) and cry to Potter about Potter's role.  If I remember, he didn't contradict Potter's perception that Potter was chosen to kill Voldemort.

> After he was cursed by the ring and had to realize he would not be around to mop up, DD had to consider what would happen after Harry went to his death. He gave Snape the task of informing Harry that he had a piece of LV in him that could only be removed by Harry's dying, but apparently did not tell him about the Horcruxes. (As he is going out the door of the office in DH, Snape asks why Harry needs the sword and DD's portrait refuses to say.) DD has no reason to believe Harry will end up as Master of the Elder Wand and so he has no reason to believe Harry can defeat LV. He admits to Harry in King's Cross he intended for Snape to take the wand, after killing him. He must have intended for Snape to kill LV. Of course, that means the wand would be back in circulation, but I can't think DD believes Harry has the power to kill LV in a duel. Plus, he wants Harry to remain innocent of homicide. (Plan C)

I think Dumbledore was somewhat deluded in HBP about how long he would be able to stick around to train Potter.  When it came down to actually dying on the Tower, he asked for Severus. At this point, he was not trying to be saved, but was rather going to ask Snape to put him out of his misery/block the potion's end result, and ostensibly transfer the wand to Snape.  That would have been a fake transfer, since Dumbledore intended the Elder Wand's power to die with him, a death Dumbledore both wanted and commanded.  I don't think Dumbledore intended reluctant-killer Snape to murder Voldemort.  I think Dumbledore still felt that job fell to Harry as The Chosen One, along with everything else.

> We know Draco ended up the Master of the Wand - without knowing it. It is not clear whether Snape knew about the Wand's power. He must have known that LV took DD's wand, because he let LV into the Hogwart's grounds and I imagine LV left the tomb a mess when he left. I can't imagine he is the type to clean up after himself. :>). As each wand is special, I believe Snape also would recognize DD's wand in the hands of LV when he next saw him. What actually happens could not have been anticipated by DD. Harry became Master of the Wand, LV did not try to kill Harry again in the forest or order one of his minions to do it for him, because he thought Harry was really dead this time, and when they met in the Great Hall, the Wand knew Harry was its Master and would not kill him. LV's own curse killed him so Harry remained innocent. Harry plans never to use the Wand again. (Plan D).

Dumbledore's stated reason for setting Potter after the Hallows still makes no sense to me, but I think he suspected Potter would somehow end up with the Elder Wand, otherwise why put him in mind of it?  Snape actually having the Elder Wand and using it against Voldemort relied on the gamble that Snape could stay alive after Potter's non-death, even though Dumbledore himself painted the irresistible target of the wand on Snape.  But I don't think Dumbledore told Snape about the wand, or that Snape figured it out, though I admit we will probably never know.  Snape seemed surprised to see Dumbledore's wand in Voldemort's hand in the Shack, if I remember correctly, but if he did recognize it earlier, maybe he thought it was just the grotesque trophy of a psychopath.  It seemed to take Snape a few seconds to even realize what the Elder Wand was, and then make the jump to who really owned it, which of course he kept secret.

In any event, I still see Dumbledore sitting smugly somewhere waiting for Potter to appear so he could explain how cunning his plan was in its details, knowing that Potter would return to finish Voldemort, as Dumbledore always expected him to do.

I could be completely wrong about this, of course.  It just seems more plausible to me.

lealess