Coming of Age in the Potterverse was Re: Dumbledore as shameless

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 188991

 
> Alla:
> They are achieving something what their elders, mentors, etc for various reasons were unable to achieve and younger generation did better in a sense. 

Pippin:
If Dumbledore is such a rotter as you think, then Harry could surpass him by turning over in his sleep. Not much drama in that, is there?

Alla:
 And in this genre Chosen **has to** come out of age, thus at least on the symbolic level I needed Harry to make a  decision in complete independence from Dumbledore. Sadly poor guy could not achieve it even when Dumbledore is not there IMO. I know, Harry agreeing to obey Dumbledore is what you are counting as Harry's coming of age, but to me it is not adequate enough.

Pippin:
Okay, I  think I get it. You were waiting for the "I can't kill my own father" moment when Luke realizes his mentors' moral judgement is flawed and trusts his own higher self to help him deal with Vader. Is that it?

But JKR said all along she wasn't writing "Star Wars." Harry has a higher power, a mental image of the epitome of goodness, but it  was created in Dumbledore's image, and it has  flaws, just as the real Dumbledore did.  Harry can't tell whether he's consulting the real Dumbledore or his mental image of him, but  it doesn't matter, because finally and after much angst about who this man really was, they are reconciled. Harry can trust Dumbledore even though Dumbledore isn't always right because he knows and accepts what Dumbledore's limits are. 

So Harry  *is* asking his highest self what he should do -- but with the twist that he knows his highest self isn't always going to be right. How does he know it's right at King's Cross? Because it's pointing towards the more difficult choice. 

JKR is saying that in the end, no matter whom we take as our epitome of goodness,  it's going to be flawed and it can  lead us astray. That doesn't mean there's no good and evil. It just means they're not as easy to tell apart as the innocent believe. Our concept of the greater good is shaped by our upbringing and we're kidding ourselves if we think we've achieved complete independence from it.  And when we expect other people to do it, we're expecting a lot too much. 

There's little point in grieving  endlessly about the moral decisions we made and feel bad about. It's the ones we *don't* feel bad about that should trouble us.    Especially the ones that should be fraught and are easy.

How do we know it was wrong for Harry to use the Unforgivable Curses even though he never expresses any regret? Because it was *easy*. 

Alla:
> I just had a thought. Maybe Harry naming his son after Snape is what I should truly count as coming of age, at least it seems to be truly independent from everybody lol.

Pippin:
I like that. But since Dumbledore's big flaw is that he's manipulative, then for Harry to surpass him we need a moment when Harry could be manipulative and isn't. 

 It would have been so easy for Harry to pressure Al into agreeing that being in Slytherin wouldn't make any difference,  and some of us were annoyed that he didn't. Does that mean Harry doesn't really think that Slytherin would be just as good? Or does it mean that, unlike Dumbledore,  Harry shows respect for Al's choices even when he doesn't think they're wise?

Pippin