Duane: Harry was Right?

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 189728


> 
> Alla:
> Dumbledore supposedly had a whole lot more information about Tommy and his behavior patterns and how many horcruxes he found during his lifetime?

Pippin:
I think Dumbledore gets at least partial credit for finding all the horcruxes except the tiara. Besides identifying, locating and destroying the Ring horcrux completely on his own, he identified the diary, the locket and the cup, located the Harry!crux and the hiding place of the locket, and of course the fragment in Voldemort himself. 

Harry would have spent  a long time hunting without Dumbledore's information, if he had even known what to hunt for. And Dumbledore only had a year left from the time when he found the Ring, and unlike Harry he could not devote full time to hunting. It's doubtful that Harry would have fared any better if he'd encountered the Ring first than Dumbledore did. He certainly didn't take due care of  the malice in the Diary or the Locket when he first found them, and he *knew* what the locket was.

> 
> Pippin: 
> > As for recognizing that Snape hates him,  where in canon is there any doubt about it? Even Hagrid can't make much of an argument otherwise. 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> LOL. I had been a member of this group for  quite some time and correct me if I am wrong, but I think you had been a member even longer than me. I am yet to remember universal agreement about such no-doubt fact and one would think that if it was so clear, more people would have been in agreement

Pippin:
LOL! This list has seldom produced universal agreement about anything. True, some of us guessed that Snape, the Great Pretender, might be pretending to some of his animosity towards Harry. And he does pretend, in HBP and DH, that he wants Harry turned over to Voldemort, so to that extent we were right. 

But no one in canon ever seriously suggested that Snape didn't hate Harry, so unless Harry has access to this list, it is hard to see how he could have drawn any other conclusion from Snape's behavior. And when Harry  finally realized what a great actor Snape was,he  still drew the wrong conclusion about what part he was playing. 

> 
> Pippin:
> But the assumptions Harry makes based on that recognition are all wrong, because Harry didn't  understand for a long time is that hatred is a weak motive for murder. At least in canon, greed, fear and rage are way ahead of it. 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> IMO I think canon shows that greed, fear and rage often go together with hate, because I do not remember where in canon Voldemort is shown as a loving individual and most of his followers as well.

Pippin:
All his followers are shown to be capable of love, though it often leads them to do twisted things, and none of them kill out of hate, IIRC.  Quirrell tries to kill Harry out of fear that Harry will expose him, Riddle wants to kill Harry to get power ("Let's match the powers of..") so that's greed. Peter killed out of fear,  Crouch Jr hated his father for most of his life but didn't try to kill him until his father threatened to expose him. In HBP we see clearly that  Draco's hatred isn't enough to goad him into killing. It takes fear to do that, and once the fear is removed, he doesn't want to kill, though his hatred is unchanged. 

What canon shows, IMO, is that hate makes it easy to contemplate killing, but doesn't actually make it easier to do.  Which makes sense, if you think about it. Contemplating anything doesn't give you the power to do it.

Snape acted on his hatred of Harry almost from the moment he first saw him, but he knew enough about killing to know that killing wouldn't satisfy his hate.  His words to Sirius are very telling, IMO: "Give me a reason, and I swear I will" IOW, he didn't consider his hatred enough of a reason to kill. 

Pippin