Time travel/ was:Chapter Discussion: Prisoner of Azkaban Ch 16

[zanooda2]

No: HPFGUIDX 190337





--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Shelley Gardner <k12listmomma at ...> wrote:

> But how do you "know" that either? It's a conjecture, a presumption > on your part.

zanooda:

Right, DD knowing what was going on and stalling the execution *is* just an assumption, but Buckbeak staying alive is not. The Trio heard the thud of the executioner's axe, but later back-in-time Harry and Hermione found out he just hacked at the fence. This is one and the same event: the first time they heard it, and the second time they saw it. Buckbeak was never beheaded, just the fence destroyed :-).

> Shelley wrote:

> That facts are that both Buckbeak and Sirius were scheduled for 
> execution. The logical path is to assume that all went as 
> scheduled, and that they were executed as scheduled

zanooda:

They were not executed *because* H&H went back in time! OK, you can argue that Buckbeak lost his head, but how can you argue that Sirius was Kissed? He definitely still had his soul when H&H went back in time. By the time they returned to the hospital wing he was already flying away... He was never Kissed. 


> Shelley wrote:
 
> I find it hard to believe, as you suggest, that Dumbledore 
> guesses that he will have, in a future time, allowed Hermione 
> the use of the Time-Turner

zanooda:

I see it this way: DD guessed (or knew somehow) what was going on outside the windows when he was at Hagrid's. I suppose he didn't know at first that Harry outside was back-in-time Harry (Harry-2). He could have thought it was just our meddlesome as always Harry-1 trying to save Buckbeak. Would it be so hard to believe :-)? (Actually, it's harder to believe that Harry *didn't* try to save Buckbeak, I remember I was surprised that he didn't. He had the Cloak, why didn't he try?) 

Anyway, DD stalled for time, and Harry managed to save Buckbeak. DD still thought it was Harry-1. Later, when Snape brought Harry, Hermione, Ron and Sirius to the castle, DD talked to Sirius and realized that it couldn't be Harry-1 who stole Buckbeak, because Harry-1 was already (or almost) in the Shrieking Shack at that time. *Then* DD guessed that it must have been Harry-2, and he came up with the plan to send Harry and Hermione back.

You are absolutely right to say that all this is just an assumption. However, Buckbeak's disappearance from the pumpkin patch is not an assumption, it's a fact. Both Harry-1 and Harry-2 witnessed it: Harry-2 stole Buckbeak himself, and Harry-1 heard the executioner hack at the fence to show his anger and disappointment about Buckbeak's escape.