Chapter Discussion: Prisoner of Azkaban Ch 19: The Servant of Lord Voldemort

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 190759



REPOSTED FOR CLARITY AND BECAUSE OF MANY TYPOS.

> Pippin:
> Now that is astonishing. For me, if Harry did not forgive Snape that would be
understandable. It would also be, well, Snape-ish. So Snape-ish that I can
hardly believe-- wait a minute, who are you and what did you do with the real
Alla? <veg>
>
> Siriusly, if Harry did not forgive Snape, It would be impossible for me to
see it as anything but JKR either approving of Snape's action in not forgiving
James, or else sending Harry down the same tragic path.


Alla:

Yes I am okay with forgiving Snape, but again I phrased it badly. As you say below, to me
naming his son after Snape is indeed above and beyond act of forgiveness. It is
something that no human being will do in my opinion (obviously your mileage may
vary).  As we discussed  earlier that in Jewish tradition the naming of the child after dead is an ultimate act of love and respect. Nothing  will convince  me that if Harry was well adjusted  man he would have wanted to show Snape and Dumbledore an ultimate act of love.  Respect could be shown  by other means. However Crist like figures will do that and I believe that she
meant Harry's sacrifice to make him Christ like figure. No, guys  please do not start,
I am not saying that she meant for Harry to be Christ, but I am saying that she
meant to invoke very obvious parallels. That is why I kind of able to understand and swallow
Harry forgiving those two, but for him being shown as Christ like figure, that
would have been even tougher sell for me.

Pippin:
> I don't see the naming of Harry's son as an act of forgiveness, though
forgiveness was a necessary precursor to it. I see it as Harry acknowledging his
personal debt to Dumbeldore and Snape. If he had not done that, if he had only
acknowledged their service to the Order, I would see it as doing exactly what
Snape did.

Alla:

Sorry, I cannot even argue against the idea of Harry having a personal debt to
a man who planned to kill him for years and a man who tormented him for years so
preposterous this idea seems to me. I will just say I disagree with that. Having
said that, I would have had no problem with Harry not only acknowledging Snape's
contribution to the order (ummm, and even that is going above and beyond of what
Snape did), but also Snape trying to save Harry's life (for Lily of course).

How is it not enough for decent person to do I wonder?

Pippin:
> Snape never said that James was cowardly or self-serving as an Order member.
It was all about the way that James tormented him at school. Because of that, he
was never going to acknowledge that James had saved his life for any but the
most selfish reasons.

Alla:

Snape however never acknowledged what James did for the order, again if Harry
only did all that it would have been him showing much more acknowledgement than
Snape did.


Pippin:
> And that's the point. We can't be afford to be choosy about our saviors, and
Harry was wise enough to see it. Dumbledore and Snape could have left Harry to
his fate -- which they saw as certain death without their intervention--but they
didn't.


Alla:

And Dumbledore did exactly that, prepared Harry to die as pig for slaughter.

Pippin:
> They didn't have to risk their lives, but they did.
>
> So what if they didn't do it for him? They did it for the things that Harry
loved, for Lily and for Hogwarts, for a world where innocence and trust still
have some value. That was enough for Harry. It's enough for me. I can't see them
as evil for doing that, even though Snape could not perceive Harry's innocence
and Dumbledore took advantage of it.

Alla:

I can and I will see Dumbledore as being evil for doing that, as putting the
gamble on one boy and coldly and calmly preparing him for his fate of
sacrifice on the altar of Wizarding world. 

Pippin:
> As always with JKR, there's a common sense reason to do the right thing along
with the noble one. Harry can hardly ask the leaders of the wizarding world to
turn their backs on old grudges if he's not willing to do it himself. If Snape
ever taught Harry anything, it's that carrying a grudge against the dead can
only harm the living.

Alla:

There is such a long road to travel from turning his back from old grudges to
naming his son in honor of the man who wanted to sacrifice him as if his life
means nothing for the future of WW, which he partially brought upon WW and for
the man who tormented and hated him for years (per JKR). But this is what Christ
like figures usually do.  So yes, since I still want to view Harry as a human being and not  as a Saintly man, I choose to view this act as creepy.
Please, acknowledge that Snape tried to save his life, by all means, show the world that he fought for right cause, but naming the child after those two?  Shakes head. At least I hope that for All and James there would be no Dumbledore and Snape to deal with.
I keep remembering that once in the interview way before the books were done she said something along the lines that religious figures do not want her to be with them, but  they cannot grasp how much she is with them, and I think the ending showed how true her words were indeed,. 

JMO,
Alla