Harry's alleged debt to Dumbledore and Snape WAS: Re: Chapter Discussion

[nikkalmati]

No: HPFGUIDX 190825



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> Alla:
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>  It is because I consider him a hypocritical manipulator, who would IMO sacrifice anybody's life and happiness to achieve his goals. Even if the goal is noble, as in to fight against Voldemort, but the way he did it, makes him really not that much better than Voldemort in my eyes.
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> Pippin:
> I don't know about JKR's ethics, but IMO, you are harder on Dumbledore than Jewish ethics would be.  In Jewish law, any commandment may be broken except those against murder, idolatry,  and sexual crimes, in order to save a life.  And  if it is done to stop someone who is pursuing another to take their life,  the sacrifice of life is not only permitted  but required.
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>  Harry and Dumbledore agree that Dumbledore never killed unless he had to, which would mean he did not commit murder. 
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> Dumbledore never idolized anyone after Grindelwald, and fanfic aside, I think it is safe to assume he didn't commit any sexual crimes either. 
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> Dumbledore admits to selfishness, but he only admires himself when his plans work, and when his plans work they save lives.
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> Nikkalmati

I am not sure I follow you.  Do you mean any action DD took to save lives (in his own opinion) was justified?  I am not sure ethics allows you to sacrifice a third party to stop a killer from pursuing someone you think is more important. 

DD's problem was an enormous ego and a lack of trust in other people.  Ironically, he apparently trusted SS more than he did anyone else, but never told even him about the Horcruxes.  He concealed information in order to manipulate people because he did not trust them to make the right decisions.  He did not trust any wizarding family to raise Harry properly; he did not trust Harry with knowledge about the Hallows because he feared he would forget about the Horcruxes; he did not tell Snape about the wand even though he intended Snape to end up with the wand (did he intend for LV to kill Snape too as a "necessary sacrifice"?);  he did not tell Minerva about his plans, I guess because he did not think she would be able to keep it quiet or she would not go along with it.  He could have told Harry that he had to sacrifice himself in that last year and I think Harry could have accepted it.  

By not confiding in other people, he took terrible risks and caused others to take risks they were not aware of.  He was very lucky that Harry was able to find the Horcruxes and that SS was able to deliver his message to Harry before he died.  He was lucky that Lupin never bit anyone while a student (or a teacher).  It has been pointed out that he took risks with the students that last year by not expelling Draco. (example, Katy and Ron). I cannot see DD as ny kind of a moral model.  

Nikkalmati