Harry's alleged debt to Dumbledore and Snape WAS: Re: Chapter Discussion

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 190836

 
> Alla:
> 
> As long as readers' conclusions have canon support they are valid IMO, even if those are not what JKR intended. For example, there is canon support for Dumbledore being able to force Dursleys to do what he wanted VERY fast and very effectively, there is also canon support that the whole Order could have easily came out and told Dursleys to stop abusing Harry OR ELSE. Because that is indeed what happened in HBP, there was no more abuse, wasn't it?


 Now,  some readers (myself) question why the heck Dumbledore and his Order did not stop the abuse earlier. 

Pippin:
Because they never stopped it.   It was in HPB that Dumbledore told the Dursleys that Harry had known nothing but neglect, and often cruelty, in their hands.  We find that Harry was not looking as neglected as he had the previous year because he, Harry, had determined that he couldn't "shut myself away or -- or crack up." He was taking better care of himself, that's all. 

I don't think JKR is inconsistent  on this -- she shows the Order trying to stop the abuse and having no effect, and she shows Dumbledore not trying to stop it, only pointing out that it exists, and also having no effect. Petunia is a little ashamed of herself, maybe. But that wouldn't stop her.  

 If Petunia is brave enough to defy Voldemort, and she is, she's brave enough to defy Dumbledore. 

She knows the blood protection is the most powerful spell Dumbledore can use to protect her and her family from Voldemort. But if she starts thinking there's nothing to choose between them? All she has to do is tell Harry he's got no home at Privet Drive, and Dumbledore can OR ELSE all he wants. I wouldn't bet Harry's life that Lily Evans's sister hasn't got it in her to shut out her nephew --  not when Lily shut out her best friend. 

 
> Alla:
> 
> Except that it looks absurd to me when he does not consider it extremely dangerous knowledge for three kids/teenagers and sends them on the merry Quest when members of the Order could have helped and Dumbedore himself admits that his mistakes are graver than others.
> 
Pippin:
The knowledge is less dangerous for them because  they haven't got the skill, experience or desire to make horcruxes of their own. 
 
> Alla:
> 
> Oh also Yahoo!Mort ate my post to you, so let me just say that I do not think it is clear at all that Dumbledore did not want Harry to die. I mean he seems happy that Harry is alive, but I do not see much evidence that it occurred through his help.


Pippin:
The gleam, Alla, the famous gleam of triumph. 

 I can see an interpretation of Dumbledore as evil because the reader has different ideas about evil than JKR.  But saying that the text depicts *Harry* as interpreting Dumbledore's actions as evil would mean Harry is depicted as having different ideas about evil than Dumbledore, and where the heck is the canon for that? 

Harry's moral *character* is superior -- he's less tempted to do  things that he and Dumbledore agree are wrong and it's easier for him to do the things that they both agree are right -- but their  values are just the same, IMO. 


Pippin