Chapter Discussion: Prisoner of Azkaban Ch 18: Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot and Pron

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 190502

 
> Alla:
> 
>  If we both agree that Snape at least suspected that there is a werewolf down there, to me to say that he "did not expect to be open to direct attack" is diminishing Snape's responsibility for his own choices and his mental capacity, you know?
> 
> Werewolf is very very dangerous when he is in werewolf's form, right? As far as official speak goes, werewolves were not allowed at Hogwarts, right?
> 
> Why would we assume that Snape who suspected that there would be werewolf decide that he would not be opened to direct attack? Is it not more logical and reasonable to assume that when you will face "dark creature", such dark creature will attack you? 


Pippin:
Aside from what Sirius told him, all Snape knew is that he saw Lupin going towards the willow  with Madame Pomfrey and this was apparently how Lupin managed to disappear from the school every month. Why would Snape expect this passage to lead straight  into a trap? 

 Remember, there are  other hidden passages  known to Filch and others. Why shouldn't Snape assume the passage led to a secret exit in Hogsmeade  as other secret passages do? And then Lupin would go  to wherever it is that the Ministry normally confines werewolves during their transformations. 
 
It was of course foolish of Snape not to consider the possibility that the passage might be a dead end with Lupin trapped inside it, but he had no particular reason to think so. Did you, Alla, prior to learning the truth from canon, ever think that the secret passage under the willow led to a dead end, or that, unlike all the others, it had been made for Lupin's exclusive use? 


Alla:

> And same thing here for me. Why would we assume that Snape thought something less reasonable and logical before he went there, especially since we know that he actually *thought* about what was down there, before he went.

Pippin:
I  like the idea that Snape had a pretty good idea of what Lupin was and Sirius had doped that out. It makes for a much better joke: instead of  "Naiveidiot!Snape goes heedlessly into a werewolf's den", we have "Toosmartforhisowngood!Snape finds out his suspicions about Lupin are true in the worst possible way." Even I can see why Sirius would find that just too funny, so funny that he hardly thought about what was going to happen next.

Alla: 
> And same thing with Sirius "allowed" Snape to go to his likely death. Sirius did not *allow* or *disallow* Snape to do anything in my opinion. Sirius gave Snape's information, which *if and only if* Snape will use it, may lead to his likely death and for that I hold Sirius responsible, absolutely, for that and for forcing Remus to participate in it, which to me was ten times more criminal and irresponsible, because Remus' choice was taken away from him.

Pippin:
Agreed, Snape is responsible for his own choice to enter the tunnel. But it was not an *informed* choice, and I hold Sirius responsible for that. 

As matters turned out, Lupin had nothing to complain about. It must have felt like a glorious reprieve. It had seemed like the Marauder adventures must come to an end, and now, instead, Snape is silenced and caught in a Catch-22: any proof he finds that the Marauders are out after hours will also be proof that Snape was out to gather it, and he will be expelled right along with them. 

> Alla:
> 
> But we know that that there is a curse that kills, why would Snape want or need anything additional?  Why would we come up with mysterious additional weapon if we know that there is a curse that kills everything alive in Potterverse only to say that Snape did not take anything with him? Are werewolves immune to Avada? I actually do not remember, if so, then your point is taken of course.

Pippin:
We know that AK doesn't kill everything alive in the Potterverse. It won't kill a phoenix, for example. Fawkes only reverts to his juvenile form.  So it is possible that other magical creatures have evolved defenses also.

 FBAWTFT mostly avoids talk about killing magical creatures: the emphasis is on how they can be protected. However, it says that the most dangerous magical beast, the nundu, has never been subdued by less than a hundred wizards working together, that the basilisk is just as dangerous to dark wizards as it is to everyone else, and that the Lethifold can only be repelled by the Patronus Charm. All of that argues that it is only humans and ordinary animals that can't survive a killing curse. 

In fact, even humans can survive if the wizard attempting the curse hasn't got enough magical power to perform it. Creatures more magic resistant than humans might require more power to kill than any wizard would normally possess.

MacNair plans to use an axe against Buckbeak. Why not a killing curse, if that would be effective? It's only illegal against humans.

But suppose AK would kill a werewolf. That would mean a werewolf is no harder for a wizard to kill  than a true wolf, and that wouldn't make sense at all, especially with all the emphasis placed on teaching people how to distinguish one from the other. 

Certainly Borgin, who knows all about dark magic, doesn't think he has anything that would protect him from Greyback. We don't know if the homorphous charm Lockhart claimed to have used against the Wagga Wagga werewolf actually worked either. Probably not, IMO.  I think in that case, Lockhart stole the story of another pretender. 

Finally, Sirius was protective towards Lupin. I can't imagine he  would  have directed Snape into the tunnel if he thought  Lupin would be attacked.

It occurs to me that the Marauders were in an excellent position to find out which, if any, non-lethal defenses against werewolves might actually work. But they never found anything that worked better than the Animagus spell.

Pippin