Chapter Discussion: Prisoner of Azkaban Ch 18: Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot and Pron

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 190522



.> > > Alla:
> > > 
> > > Expected, wanted, REALLY hoped, is not the same as *knew* that he would go though. Again, to me what Sirius wanted out of is completely irrelevant. I mean it is quite obvious that nothing GOOD would have come out of it, isn't it? Still Snape went because he wanted to.
> >
> 
> Pippin:
> In colloquial English, it is the same. We can say that Draco knew Harry would show up for the duel, not because Draco is prescient or because Harry was coerced, but because Draco knows Harry has a reputation to uphold and backing out of a duel would be unthinkable. 
> 
> In the same way, Sirius doesn't know in any prescient sense that Snape will take the bait and doesn't do anything that would compel Snape to take it. But he knows that Snape will take it, because he knows Snape.
> 
> The fisherman does not know, in the sense of believing with absolute certainty, that a fish will bite on his hook. But he knows, in the sense of grasping something with a thorough understanding, that a fish will bite on his hook. 

Alla:

See, no,I do not agree. I guess you are closer to Carol's point of view than I thought.

I mean, Sirius knows because he knows Snape means to me that he can predict Snape's behavior to a smallest detail. That assumes to me that he can predict anything that Snape will do, always (or often, does not really matter. And to me this takes away Snape's choice. Now Sirius is not only the greatest legilimenc but also the greates psychologist? What would have stopped Snape from deciding oh heck, it is not worth it, I am afraid to go and see werewolf, too scary, too dangerous? Unlikely? Sure. Possible? Of course to me it is, after all before he went to Dumbledore to beg for Lily, first whom he pleaded with was Voldemort, so Snape decided that it is less scary way to try first IMO.

Oh here is my simplistic real life example, which is only  partial analogy to this of course. I know that my friend vastly prefers dark chocolate to milk one, like she would almost alwats choose dark one. Does she always choose milk one? Of course not! There are days she would still choose milk one and for me to assume that I can always predict which one I should buy for her is incredibly arrogant and just plain not true.



.> Pippin:
> I don't claim to be objective about the characters. But Sirius's malice towards Snape is unquestionable. And the outcome, while not inevitable, was certainly predictable by any reasonable person.  As Lupin says, "Of course Snape tried it."

Alla:

Outcome was predictable since the moment Snape decided to go there, not before in my opinion. Lupin says it after the fac.


Pippin:

> Snape wouldn't have had a lot of time to think it over -- presumably he saw Lupin and Pomfrey going to the willow,  immediately confronted Sirius with what he'd seen, and knew he'd have to act on Sirius's information that night, before Sirius could warn Lupin or Madame Pomfrey that the willow  secret was blown. <SNIP>


Alla:

He had plenty of time to obsess over Shrieking shack and Lupin there IMO, enough that he shared his thoughts with Lily. If he acted soon enough after he got information, to me that only meant that Sirius' giving him the information was the very last drop which finally made him decide to go that day, thats all IMO.


Pippin:
> I agree that both Sirius and Snape lacked an adult's capacity to assess the consequences of their actions.  That's why Dumbledore gave them both another chance. But that doesn't mean that Sirius's actions were right in any moral sense, or that he didn't act out of a desire to harm Snape. 


Alla:

Um, no it may mean that he only wanted to scare Snape, just as there is no way for me to prove that he did not want to kill Snape, there is no way to prove that he just wanted to scare him big time. But I certainly agree that his actions were not right in moral sense. Sharing information with Snape about how to get to your friend who is turning very dangerous at fool moon and kinda insane and may bit people was not moral at all IMO.

JMO,

Alla