Chapter Discussion: Prisoner of Azkaban Ch 18: Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot and Pron

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 190537



.> Nikkalmati
> 
> I don't see why it is a matter of proving Sirius "made" or "forced" Snape to go.  No one really argues that.  He tricked Snape, he enticed Snape and, yes, he preyed on Snape's weakness.  Sirius had important knowledge he withheld.  The Prank might not meet the requiirement of first degree murder, but I could easily argue either voluntary or involuntary manslaughter, if things had not gone well.  So what is the point of arguing Sirius did not make Snape go?  It sounds like an attempt to absolve Sirius of all responsibility. <SNIP>


Alla:

How did he *entice* Snape to go if Snape chose to go all on his own? And to me saying that he did that is absolving Snape of his responsibility of choosing to go all on his own. What was Snape's "weakness" in this situation? Was there somebody he wanted to save in there? Was there something good he needed to do? No, he did not need to go there at all. No, to me he wanted to confirm his suspicions or knowledge that there was werewolf there, which is for me pretty much a canon fact, or maybe (to me canon based speculation) he may have wanted to restrain or kill Lupin.

As I mentioned before, how exactly am I absolving Sirius of responsibility if to me it is quite possible that he may have wanted to kill Snape. I personally do not believe it, but I acknowledge the possibility since

But to me, what you are doing is absolving Snape of his  responsibility to not go where he was not supposed to, no matter how he wanted to go or how much of information Sirius shared with him.

Because sure some Snape fans (sorry, I do not remember anybody else but Pippin saying it lately so I generalize) say that Snape is responsible for being out of bounds, but it sounds so strange to me, because it sounds as if Snape is responsible for being out of bounds elsewhere, not just deciding to go to Shrieking Shack. All I want is to acknowledge that yes, he is responsible for CHOOSING to go to Shack all on his own.

Snape had his free will hadn't he? He did not have to go, no matter how much he *wanted* to, so to me each of them is responsible for his own thing. Sirius' mindset may as well been of the murderer that night, but if Snape did not choose to go, nothing would have happened.

Nikkalmati:
<SNIP>
A major reason some of us hold that Sirius bears responsibility is because he
never expresses any remorse, even as an adult. He never admits he could have
gotten James killed (I assume James could not transform in the tunnel) or Remus
killed or expelled. Sirius would have born responsibility for those results, I
assume you agree? Otherwise why wouldn't Lupin forgive him without any trouble.
After all, it was not his fault. I personally am appaled that Sirius never
expresses to Harry or to Lupin that maybe it was not a good idea. Instead he
tries to pass the blame all to Snape.

Alla:

Yes, of course I think he would have been responsible together with Snape, him for giving Snape an information, which could have had Snape kiilled if Snape chose to go and him for going, as I said, I could easily see attempted murder charge, I just as easily see the reasonable doubt introduced, very easily. As I said, I did a happy dance when Snape was killed that is why while in principle I agree with you, I would not have shed tears so I am not the person to ask to be appalled, I was just delighted that JKR decided to spare the next generation of Hogwarts the torment Harry had been through. I am appalled that we never saw him expressing remorse to Lupin though,thats for sure, although maybe he did, who knows. After all several things about prank left vague still.

I am sure I have said it before  but I think I will say it again, to me if I would have had any doubts that JKR thought Snape's behavior after the prank was wrong and ungrateful, his death took away those doubts.

Oh you are so sorry Snape that James saved you? You really wanted to be killed in the Shack by the monster, here we go, killed in the Shack only by real monster, not by Lupin who was as gentle as they come in human form IMO.

JMO,

Alla



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