Cedric, Snape and carma was re: Chapter Discussion: Prisoner of Azkaban

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 190546





>  
> > Alla:
> > 
> > Except to me the HUGE difference is that Cedric did not have any choice in the matter, not a real choice. Everything was prearranged, so of course anybody who would have taken the cup would have suffered the same fate. Snape had a choice, a very real one IMO.
> 
> Pippin:
> See, I can agree with most of  your post except this, because to me Cedric's choices and Snape's are eerily similar. Cedric chose to enter the Tri-wizard Tournament. He knew he'd be tested to the limits of his bravery, knowledge and skill. He was warned he'd have to cope with danger.  Cedric knew  he could expect to find monsters in the maze, maybe even the deadliest kind. He'd already had to face a dragon. 
> 
> But he was expecting a challenge, not a deathtrap. There wasn't supposed to be anything in there so lethal that he couldn't defeat it, or at least get away.  The rules of the tournament compelled him to attempt the task; he was not compelled to finish it. He was supposed to be able to summon aid if he chose to, though he would forfeit his chance to win. 
> 
> Cedric knew the rules were getting bent here and there, but he still didn't think there was anyone  at Hogwarts so careless of his life that they would arrange for  him, or anyone who took the Cup, to face a known killer with no chance of escape. 
> 
> Do you see what I am getting at here? Snape had no more reason to think he would find himself in a deathtrap if he took up Sirius's challenge than Cedric had to think that the Cup was booby-trapped, because who at Hogwarts would do something like that? 


Alla:

Ah, yes, now I do see what you are getting at, I just do not think I agree. I think the part of it is because I just cannot see their choices as similar. I thought you were only comparing Cedric's choice to share a cup, so I did not agree with it, but sure I agree that Cedric chose to enter TriWizard tournament all on his own, it was not prearranged etc. Except, see I think Cedric was doing a choice which he would think would test him to the limits, which of course could and likely will be dangerous, but the difference to me between Cedric choice to enter Tournament and Snape's choice to enter a Shack was that Cedric did not think that his choice was to do something as evil and selfish as Snape wanted to. Cedric wanted to win in the Tournament, which he wanted to do in the most noble way. Snape wanted to do *something* to his fellow student, can we agree on that? I mean even if you do not buy my speculation that he wanted to kill Remus, I think it is pretty clear that he wanted to catch werewolf on something? Mind you he knew that Remus is officially accepted in school, he saw Remus going there with Madame Pomfrey, so he knew adults are aware of whatever is happening in the Shack. And he still wanted to catch Remus, whom he suspected (I firmly convinced he knew based on his conversation with Lily, but lets stick with suspected) on something. The *least* which Remus could have expected, if Snape confirms that he is a werewolf is that he will be expelled, can we agree on that? Because werewolves are still not officially allowed at Hogwarts at that time, right?

So, no I do not see the situations as similar at all, I mean they both chose to do something dangerous, but Cedric was not signing up to do something evil, selfish and against the rules. He was signing up for very official school competition.



 
> 
> > Alla:
> > 
> > Goodness, no, not a reward, a carmic payback, for tormenting James's son for one of many James' offenses amongst them being saving him IMO.
> 
> Pippin:
> I think the idea of carma breaks down in the stories. We all want to see goodness rewarded and evil punished, and we're glad when it happens. But it doesn't seem like it's the law of JKR's universe. When it comes to tormenting Harry, Umbridge and the Dursleys are far worse, and nothing so terrible happens to them.
<SNIP>
 
>Alla:

I am not advocating that books have consistent system of carmic payback actually. I am just saying that I see this situation and several others as carmic payback, thats all. It is just too convenient for me to consider where he died and how he died to be a coincidence and I do not quite buy your reasoning of it. After all if we were to follow that path, then every death in the books would have been by monster's hand. Lupin and Tonks just died, no monsters were waiting for them, no monster was waiting for Dumbledore unless you consider Snape to be one, etc, etc.

JMO,
Alla